A formidable question for all you atheists.

[Chesty Puller]

Why do people constantly declare war on God, whether that be on somebody else's God or just the simple existence of God. This is a matter on which I could never relate. The most intelligent minds past and present have always failed to solve the mystery of god. Could this be the reason why? Is something so mysterious the greatest minds could never figure out reason enough to hate it, to spit on it, to try and convince others to do the same? We've examined all the different life forms around us and managed to come to a conclusion on why it is, yet when we look inward to examine ourselves and figure out why we are what we are, we can never truly understand the full nature of it. If God is the one to give credit for the universe and all the things we can never understand then why are we hostile to just the idea? Do the paintings spit in the artist's face after he is done painting? We've yet to even travel farther than our own solar system. So who are we to declare war on an entity we don't understand whatsoever? We don't even know what god is, why hate it. This is the question left unsolved which leads me to oppose the ignorant hatred of God. And to all the atheists out there ask yourselves this. Is the subject of your declaration on God, or the people who follow him?

[KingSnake]

tldr

[Zed_]

insert -didn't read- gif here

[Tripluh]

gtfo religion on runescape site.

[U mad tr0ll]

[Geno]

This pretty much underlines the difference in rhetoric between "the god side" and Atheists. Atheists havn't declared war on anything. They simply think the idea of god is degrading to the human race and over the years cost many more human lives than it has saved. "The god side", on the other hand, does declare war on people, atheists, for one are a constant target of the modern, active "warriors of god" - the jihadists, but throughout history, the people who have suffered most to the hands of these warriors, have usually been those of different faiths. As faith has proliferated less and less, violence due to faith has also gone down, from the warlike civilization of medieval western europe crusading (because the pope, a mere man, ordered them to) against the muslims in the levant, to the ethnic cleansings in Africa by the christian colonialists, and then later by the new african christians against the moorish muslims, we see that violence in certain areas has decreased in proportion to religion easing its grip. Europe is far less christian - and far less violent. Africa, however, is very religious, very intollerent against homosexuality, and right now is locked in bitter civil war, where boku haram is seeking to spread jihad over a large area. 

 

Aside from the human argument against the existance of a mighty, omniscient, all forgiving and very vengeful, sky man who favours only the people who follow him, there is the philosophical one. In short, science has gotten us to a stage where we can show things and predict phenomina exceptionally accurately using instruments and frameworks invented by man. Numbers, algebra, the LHC, are all examples of thing that humans have invented to better understand the universe we live in. Slowly questions are being answered, 100 years ago we didn't know what happened inside an atom. Now we know the inside of the atom is far more complex than we could have ever dreamed. Science pushes forward, however, to find theories that fit their data, and to simply cop out and say "oh its all the vengeful sky man, do not attempt to understand his mystery", isn't good enough. Putting our lives and this universe simply down to faith, isn't good enough. That, as an atheist, is what I have against god.

[Ben]

Quode'll win this topic.

[cassidy69]

Most great minded athiests have their own hypothesis, others believe that you're just like any other plant or animal. You live your time than you die, spirituality convinces otherwise but does not convince you of a "greater being" , however for some people it's easy to believe in brown sticky stuff you cant see and for others, It's just a plane joke like when your mother told you about santa and the easter bunny, However i'm convinced that Every single catholic/christian are worshipping the wrong god and may have been worshipping the devil. I mean theres a possibility, just think about how many times the bible has been rewritten over the years. & how we're supposed to allow soldiers from our country go into poor countries and carrot and kill innocent people, I believe a commandment is "Thou shalt not kill" however this country thinks it's okay to do it still and also believes that these soldiers are a child of god, However the bible clearly states if you go to war you commit sin, you're going to hell bottom line. You guys created that rule yourself and now you try to cheat it, All soldiers are going to be doomed if there really is a god.

[Aquaxi]

@@Quode

[Pigwrestler7]

This pretty much underlines the difference in rhetoric between "the god side" and Atheists. Atheists havn't declared war on anything. They simply think the idea of god is degrading to the human race and over the years cost many more human lives than it has saved. "The god side", on the other hand, does declare war on people, atheists, for one are a constant target of the modern, active "warriors of god" - the jihadists, but throughout history, the people who have suffered most to the hands of these warriors, have usually been those of different faiths. As faith has proliferated less and less, violence due to faith has also gone down, from the warlike civilization of medieval western europe crusading (because the pope, a mere man, ordered them to) against the muslims in the levant, to the ethnic cleansings in Africa by the christian colonialists, and then later by the new african christians against the moorish muslims, we see that violence in certain areas has decreased in proportion to religion easing its grip. Europe is far less christian - and far less violent. Africa, however, is very religious, very intollerent against homosexuality, and right now is locked in bitter civil war, where boku haram is seeking to spread jihad over a large area. 

 

Aside from the human argument against the existance of a mighty, omniscient, all forgiving and very vengeful, sky man who favours only the people who follow him, there is the philosophical one. In short, science has gotten us to a stage where we can show things and predict phenomina exceptionally accurately using instruments and frameworks invented by man. Numbers, algebra, the LHC, are all examples of thing that humans have invented to better understand the universe we live in. Slowly questions are being answered, 100 years ago we didn't know what happened inside an atom. Now we know the inside of the atom is far more complex than we could have ever dreamed. Science pushes forward, however, to find theories that fit their data, and to simply cop out and say "oh its all the vengeful sky man, do not attempt to understand his mystery", isn't good enough. Putting our lives and this universe simply down to faith, isn't good enough. That, as an atheist, is what I have against god.

Stop trying to mention @@Quode... This guy nailed it.

 

IMO I believe that religion just does more harm in the end than good + half the people that follow a religion pick and choose the bits that suit them, especially half the brown sticky stuff in the bible.

[`Fly]

We are faith hard-wired beings from the beginning of mankind because our brains cannot even begin to comprehend how the world around us was made. If you believe it to be true it will be true. There are not "universal laws of logic" when it comes to this kind of stuff.

 

People need to have faith, in the end religion and atheism are two sides of the same coin trying to make sense of something we will never make sense of.

 

@@Geno There is a difference between having faith that everything will work out and having faith that your religion is gonna work everything out "if you go do this" Having faith goes beyond religion in itself.

[M IM ILL]

tldr

[Geno]

We are faith hard-wired beings from the beginning of mankind because our brains cannot even begin to comprehend how the world around us was made. If you believe it to be true it will be true. There are not "universal laws of logic" when it comes to this kind of stuff.

 

People need to have faith, in the end religion and atheism are two sides of the same coin trying to make sense of something we will never make sense of.

We are faith hard-wired beings from the beginning of mankind because our brains cannot even begin to comprehend how the world around us was made. If you believe it to be true it will be true. There are not "universal laws of logic" when it comes to this kind of stuff.

 

People need to have faith, in the end religion and atheism are two sides of the same coin trying to make sense of something we will never make sense of.

If you really think that this universe is incomprehensible then you are thoroughly deluded. Again, the cop out that most religionists tout, comes to the fore in your assessment of the universe; that it is simply too large to understand. This is patently untrue. In 1687 Isaac Newton published Principia Mathematica. In this document was included his first two laws of motion, from which the basics of modern mechanics are built on. These laws were found to hold true anywhere in the universe, apart from at a sub-atomic level, where quantum mechanics comes into play, and at an event horizon, where the known laws of physics do not seem to apply. You are [bold]atleast[/bold] 300 years behind modernity if you still think the universe cannot be explained my mathematics, physics and philosophy.

[`Fly]

If you really think that this universe is incomprehensible then you are thoroughly deluded. Again, the cop out that most religionists tout, comes to the fore in your assessment of the universe; that it is simply too large to understand. This is patently untrue. In 1687 Isaac Newton published Principia Mathematica. In this document was included his first two laws of motion, from which the basics of modern mechanics are built on. These laws were found to hold true anywhere in the universe, apart from at a sub-atomic level, where quantum mechanics comes into play, and at an event horizon, where the known laws of physics do not seem to apply. You are [bold]atleast[/bold] 300 years behind modernity if you still think the universe cannot be explained my mathematics, physics and philosophy.

 

Than your faith is built into science, I'm not religious. 

[Geno]

 

@@Geno There is a difference between having faith that everything will work out and having faith that your religion is gonna work everything out "if you go do this" Having faith goes beyond religion in itself.

Without faith, then, what do you have?

Answer: The realisation that everything in life does not simply work itself out the way it "should" be.

This simple premace makes it necessary to work, to strive to understand and better yourself. That is true selfishness, however the results of this selfishness can often be used for very unselfish ends. Newton was an arrogant and bombastic man. He was hard to work with and very temperamental, however his laws have been used for 300 years to better understand the universe in which we live and to advance mankind. I doubt, sincerely that he simply sat back and presumed the laws he worked out would write themselves.

[`Fly]

Without faith, then, what do you have?

Answer: The realisation that everything in life does not simply work itself out the way it "should" be.

This simple premace makes it necessary to work, to strive to understand and better yourself. That is true selfishness, however the results of this selfishness can often be used for very unselfish ends. Newton was an arrogant and bombastic man. He was hard to work with and very temperamental, however his laws have been used for 300 years to better understand the universe in which we live and to advance mankind. I doubt, sincerely that he simply sat back and presumed the laws he worked out would write themselves.

 

If you need laws to tell you how life works that is pretty much the same thing as religion is it not?

[Geno]

Than your faith is built into science, I'm not religious.

 

Nono, faith is blind. Faith is taking something as true, with no evidence. That isn't what The scientific method advocates. More often times than not scientists have trouble fitting laws to their observational data, to establish models for phenomena that exist by implication or observtion. The including of implication is a reference to things that cannot be seen, but only implied. The existance of the Higgs boson, for example.

Science is precisely the opposite to faith because it requires evidence beyond doubt, where faith requires doubt to establish a flimsy paradigm of "truth".

[`Fly]

Nono, faith is blind. Faith is taking something as true, with no evidence. That isn't what The scientific method advocates. More often times than not scientists have trouble fitting laws to their observational data, to establish models for phenomena that exist by implication or observtion. The including of implication is a reference to things that cannot be seen, but only implied. The existance of the Higgs boson, for example.

Science is precisely the opposite to faith because it requires evidence beyond doubt, where faith requires doubt to establish a flimsy paradigm of "truth".

 

Ok, well we see faith as different things in our own mind. Which is cool I'm really not trying to bash in beliefs here.

[Beastdefire]

God is dead.

[Geno]

If you need laws to tell you how life works that is pretty much the same thing as religion is it not?

I reject the statement of the need for these laws. The laws exist to better understand and explain in greater detail, the universe in which we live. Faith is taking as red that the universe will exist in the same state that it is now, tomorrow. Science, leaves the possibility of change.

[Andy]

Just had a poop

[Geno]

Ok, well we see faith as different things in our own mind. Which is cool I'm really not trying to bash in beliefs here.

I agree, I think we really do see faith differently.

For me, going to the most extreme absence of faith, I would find science. I think you find both religion and science to have an equal value stake in faith.

[`Fly]

I reject the statement of the need for these laws. The laws exist to better understand and explain in greater detail, the universe in which we live. Faith is taking as red that the universe will exist in the same state that it is now, tomorrow. Science, leaves the possibility of change.

 

How can science change things when science determines what is constant and won't change?

 

But yes you are correct with the above statement. See why trying to understand the universe is so dumb? haha

[Chesty Puller]

This pretty much underlines the difference in rhetoric between "the god side" and Atheists. Atheists havn't declared war on anything. They simply think the idea of god is degrading to the human race and over the years cost many more human lives than it has saved. "The god side", on the other hand, does declare war on people, atheists, for one are a constant target of the modern, active "warriors of god" - the jihadists, but throughout history, the people who have suffered most to the hands of these warriors, have usually been those of different faiths. As faith has proliferated less and less, violence due to faith has also gone down, from the warlike civilization of medieval western europe crusading (because the pope, a mere man, ordered them to) against the muslims in the levant, to the ethnic cleansings in Africa by the christian colonialists, and then later by the new african christians against the moorish muslims, we see that violence in certain areas has decreased in proportion to religion easing its grip. Europe is far less christian - and far less violent. Africa, however, is very religious, very intollerent against homosexuality, and right now is locked in bitter civil war, where boku haram is seeking to spread jihad over a large area. 

 

Aside from the human argument against the existance of a mighty, omniscient, all forgiving and very vengeful, sky man who favours only the people who follow him, there is the philosophical one. In short, science has gotten us to a stage where we can show things and predict phenomina exceptionally accurately using instruments and frameworks invented by man. Numbers, algebra, the LHC, are all examples of thing that humans have invented to better understand the universe we live in. Slowly questions are being answered, 100 years ago we didn't know what happened inside an atom. Now we know the inside of the atom is far more complex than we could have ever dreamed. Science pushes forward, however, to find theories that fit their data, and to simply cop out and say "oh its all the vengeful sky man, do not attempt to understand his mystery", isn't good enough. Putting our lives and this universe simply down to faith, isn't good enough. That, as an atheist, is what I have against god.

Hey man I'll get back to this shortly. I'm high as fuck right now off pain meds cuz I just had my wisdom teeth plucked out. I read a little bit before and I can tell this will be an interesting debate.

[Geno]

How can science change things when science determines what is constant and won't change?

*human change, sorry should have made that clearer