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Mains Within the Pure Community


Kim
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Pures  

131 members have voted

  1. 1. Are mains in the pure scene a problem for the community?

    • Yes
      101
    • No
      30
  2. 2. Do you think the scene should be reset back to the original LPC scene? (1 def pures)

    • Yes
      62
    • No
      54
    • Undecided
      15
  3. 3. Do you think that the pure scene will die in late 2021 - Early 2022?

    • Yes
      76
    • No
      55

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  • Poll closed on 04/27/21 at 04:23 PM

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6 hours ago, Victory said:

i think Kim is close to the reality here:

the meta of cwa is too high with a small 'lower bracket' - which isn't competetive or active enough

to be able to prep u need 200m+ of gear AND maxed 25def 100+cb

maybe the issues are interconnected... who knows

Yeah, CWA is dead because of three main reasons imo.

1. Cheat clients.

2. Clans only allow their best members to participate. Instead of trying to pull as many as they can and then sitting to match opts like the old days, they just tell you not to bother showing up if you're not 100+ combat with maxed gear.

3. Lack of interest, which stems from point #2. Hypothetical situation: I'm new to the pure scene and I just joined my first clan. I have a maxed 1 def 60 attack pure and I want to participate in CWA. My leaders tell me my account isn't good enough, I need to train defence and attack. I need to "ruin" my pure to participate. No thanks. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Savior said:

Correction: This is the first time where you see using mains has been normalized 100% in clans other than Supremacy.

 

 

For having a creation date of 2017 on the website, you know that is false. Legacy clans were bringing mains before Supremacy. Put the bias aside.

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53 minutes ago, Dox17 said:

looks like the scene became the way it is due to the people in charge of the scene. complain to pure the leaders who bend the knee to rot, not the community.

Hard to talk to community leaders one on one. As bias makes plays and people start to think they are secondary intentions. The community has to encourage/force their leaders to make changes within their respective clans. Else, pure clans will have to face third cycle of  near death. 

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2 hours ago, P1z4 said:

No "fan forum" or defence "reset" will fix this issue, only jagex can with some sort of restricted defence world but it isn't gonna happen. 

 

Doesn't matter who started what no pure alliance will last long enough to do anything, the best thing you can do is weed ya leaks out and just dip when you see mains win or lose. 

 

 

Problem is with asking a restricted defence world, you have to show that there is enough activity to achieve such update. Although, as you probably remember, the older community used to always want the concept and used to ask for it. Sharkbrew even asked J-Mods and they couldn't understand the concept. In order to show enough activity, the pure scene has to do something to make themselves more appealing to be apart of. Someone made a good point that the clanning system may help revive the scene but I am not sure if newer players would like to join with the current interferences and egos. 

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that zenith/fo/apex/rot/ez/sv etc alliance needs to break up, the pures should b fighting bak, not joining the mains l0l its only been bad for them. zenith went 130 - 30, fo went 100 - 25, apex went 25 - 25 (but they lost their cwa warrers l0l). they need faith in their members, they obviously dont believe they can do anything alone l0l im sure rev would stop camping them if they apologized for joining fcs with rot/ez/sv and hitting rev!

 

cookies, k2p, nox all need to leave their joined discord with rot ranks l00l

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Why doesn’t jagex make a world where it’s only for 1-5 defence & ONLY allowed to be logged in that new wilderness bank area, I think it would make sense. Like even having a special tele that brings you back to a wilderness safe spot to bank & re gear  ( if there is already one I am not sure since I haven’t been in the clanning community for some years ) just a wilderness world cap’d at 1-5 def. 

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I'm pretty late to this party, but I feel like this discussion is something that probably should've occurred back in 2017/18 from the looks of things since my 6 year hiatus from the scene/game. I've read alot of replies to this topic that seem to have the correct observations, which is that simply put; the reason the mains are a problem in the pure community, is because the pure community is itself the problem.

 

If we go back (and I mean way back) to when the original Pure Community/Warfare became an established scene, the primary and obvious pro to being a pure versus a med was that you had more options for DPS at a lower combat level than any main had at the same +/- 5 combat levels. This meant that en masse, despite the defence advantage of being a med, pure accounts could damage the lower hp meds and kill them faster than the meds could kill the pures. This also translated somewhat equivocally from multi to singles pking, with the most successful examples of this ideology being displayed by Kids Ranqe, Mahatma, Elvemage, etc. This popularity enticed more players to play as pures, especially if you were a dedicated PKer, as that was seen as a true form of risk/reward combat, a prestigious way to play RS if you will. Many pure clans at the time were on average between combat levels 65-75, and it was considered impressive to have a pure over combat 82 whether by 70 attack or by additional prayer/defence. This was a culture not built around min/maxing for competitive advantage, but a culture built around massing as many damage dealers as possible with as little defence as possible.

 

The biggest shift from massing culture to individual quality culture came with the addition of Clan Wars and Bounty Hunter Craters, and the abrupt removal of Free Trade and the Wilderness. Suddenly, no longer were combat 65s fighting 70s and 75s maybe depending on the day, but now in the Craters you have combat 60s trapped in a crater where level 100s can hit them with no penalty or stat rework. Being the stubborn sort that pures are like to be, rather than just make new builds or change their pures into meds that could compete in the craters versus higher levelled meds, the single pking pures opted to just stay pure, but chase that before never embraced stat of Attack, and some also chose to add some extra Prayer and Defence alongside it. Since clans struggled to pull to Clan Wars, this was widely accepted so that as many people as possible could partake in Pure Warfare whilst the Wilderness was still for all intents and purposes dead.

 

Please note that back then, 20 defence was the absolute max def level allowed. It was astonishing to see a pure combat 90+ at this point and time. The clans who craved winning in this Clan Wars only era promoted and pushed for their members to get that higher combat level, because in CWA, all combat levels were hittable by the big boy 95s and 100s, just like the BH Craters. Alot of clans slumped during this time, as most members did not care to train or grind accounts to have maxed 99 stats, they just wanted to pk and war with their mates and have fun. Obviously, in this matched environment, the competitive edge in clans began to evolve and the culture of pure clanning shifted almost completely from massing to individual member quality (especially with the rise of Mini wars and matched preps). Then, the wilderness was brought back in the form of PvP worlds, and pures everywhere rejoiced. Thousands of players returned to the game, and hundreds returned back to pure clanning. New clans were born, all the pent up frustration from the Clan Wars era, the annoyances of bickering rank teams struggling to organize events with other rank teams was partially reduced, because in the Wilderness, there is no timer countdown, and there is no matched cap to run by. The bigger the clan, the better the clan, the more they win. So the pure community exploded, 2009 probably saw some of the biggest pulls in the game's history, in fact I doubt that the scene will ever see the top 4 clans pulling 90+ during winter holiday, the 5-9 clans all pulling 70+, and the lower 10-15 clans all pulling 40-50+. The main community was similarly enjoying huge pulls and due to the amount of competition, had weeks where every day there was a rune war happening in f2p, or a PKRI happening in P2p.

 

During this time however, there was no going back to the days of combat 65s-75s being good enough to compete. Sure, a clan like Epidemic could show up every now and again, overloaded with combat level 70s and low 80s to compete with the top pulling clans. That individual quality though, because Clan Wars was still the only "true" test of a clan's quality, meant that big mithlord accounts were the rave, and every clan wanted their members as high a combat level as possible. "The more you hit, the better use of your strength". "The longer you can pray, the better you can tank and last". These are sentiments the community still holds to this day, and the biggest changes from back then to now, is that back then:

- Main clans had plenty of other main clans to fight against. Despite pure clans being at the same combat range as Zerk/Tank clans (btw capped at cb 110-112 at the time), it was a show of weakness to try and compete with clans that boasted no defence or rune.

- Pure clans on the weekend were not interested in using mains in the wilderness, there were still plenty of level 70s around that couldn't be hit at FOG or Hill Giants by level 95s and 100s, let alone by level 105-112 meds/tanks.

- Defence did not play a roll in defending against Magic attacks. Your magic defence was purely based off of your magic level and the gear you wore. This meant that in a pinch scenario, pures could utilize their actual bridding talent to out DPS meds in P2p using Mage as a reliable source of DPS, alongside a random melee KO or great prayer/positioning.

 

There are other variables than just those 3 mentioned, but even if you compare those 3 points with how things are now and have been since probably 2012 when the Turmoil/Chaotic era was with the game.... I think it's pretty obvious that the pure community is honestly too far from even the proper ideology of "pure" to be capable of reverting truly into a more fun and enjoyable scene. Add to this the fact that main clans are as prone to avoid one another as pure clans, and they number very few when you remove the mercenary venezuelans that are contracted to fight alongside them... Everybody just wants to have every possible advantage for their clan to win before they fight. They want the stats, gear, opts, and intel superiority. With the game balanced the way it is, it's impossible for a pure past combat level 80 to really compete with any med around the 84-88 combat level range, regardless of build or gear. Statistically, a mage/range tank is the most powerful "combat" build in the game now. In both F2p and P2p with snare being allowed in the F2p server.

 

The pure community's only hope to revive/survive without continued reliance and interference by mains is that Jagex firstly alter the game's combat triangle in a manner to where Magic accuracy is again buffed to ignore Defence stat, and also that clan leaders/members get out of the endgame gear rat race that only really benefits CWA since as we've established already, the higher your combat, the less effective your pure. With combat level averages being well over 85 for most clans, it's highly unlikely that a scene reset back to 1-5 def would have any true impact, because people would still chase that combat 101 build with 99attack prayer str hp mage range etc, or have to get that 80 attack for the Elder Maul. Add to this the fact that pures have a annoying habit of multi clanning, whether that's CWA teams, Main clans, Singles teams and what not, the community just simply cannot escape mains, because they themselves are mains.

 

No pure can outmatch a main. Most pures would rather win, even if that means bringing mains, before they would remain pure and just take the L, regardless of it being in CWA or Wild.

No conglomerate of ranks will ever willingly be the first clan to fully return to the roots of pure warfare, setting a hard combat cap, refusing to fight in CWA with endgame gear (elders, toxics, rapiers, ballistas, etc) at the cost of their winrate (shit as everybody's is).

All that you, the community will achieve, is eventually ascending fully into the Med/Zerk/Tank bracket, and from there, the main bracket. Regardless of any scene reset, soon again shall everybody be back in this position, with these accounts and these weird ass proxy wars.

 

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk. None of you will make the change happen, and Jagex certainly don't give a fuck about you to help facilitate that change, so at this point just enjoy the community you're apart of, and when you finally get back to IRL, focus on the good times you had in your memories.

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On 4/21/2021 at 9:28 AM, Kim said:

A problem that has been brought up by people who may not want move down. The idea of main clans or even fellow pure clans create 88cb tanks if they moved down. 

Yeah, i feel like this generation of clanning just wants to do anything and everything for action and to hurt their rivals even if that means ruining fun for other scenes completely irrelevant to said beef. Doubtful any of it will ever change til the toxic people are gone 🤷‍♂️

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I have no interest in attempting to reconcile relationships with people who have actively gone out of their way to make both mine and the people whom I have represented for 6+ years as miserable as possible at every turn. 

You have reaped what you have sown. 

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This all happend because of foe lol, they took di member 'Giggs' in the clan, meanwhile Rot warned them 3 times to remove him, which Danny denied and he thought foe had a chance vs Rot (when rot was good).

Fast forward, now main clans are targeting pure clans that have multi clanners in them. 

Danny would do anything, to get a inch of more success, meanwhile he killed his own clan, 2 times. Oldschools and legends never liked him, and went him to go. Guess his ego is 2 high, and thinks is one of the best leaders foe had. 

 

Walli, Adhi, Luke are talking behind his back, imagine being that spineless. 

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, P1z4 said:

No "fan forum" or defence "reset" will fix this issue, only jagex can with some sort of restricted defence world but it isn't gonna happen. 

 

Doesn't matter who started what no pure alliance will last long enough to do anything, the best thing you can do is weed ya leaks out and just dip when you see mains win or lose. 

 

 

Jagex could easily do this like how they did PVP and Bounty Worlds jagex are a bunch of fucking PVM mains though :V

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You think mains are the problem lmao? Weak leaderships are the problem. Weak clans constantly multi-clanning while crying about multi-clanning whenever it benefits their rivals.

 

Pure clans that literally beg mains to join them like FO, Z, BP, Apex are the reason clans like Rage and OG are packing serious heat. The hilarious thing is that now that certain clans have been broken by their usage and reliance on mains, they want people to magically forget they were the ones who started all of this shit.

 

Now all the victim clans will keep crying in CWA, not fixing anything and the clans who embrace the full power of helmet will control the scene.

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I think the problem in itself is that the art of clanning has changed. I was part of the main community during 09-2012. Fights were much cleaner and there were more clans to engage in battle with. I honestly don't remember hearing of people multi-logging  during those years nor do I remember leaks being a common thing. In order to make a short concise point, I don't believe the defense level is the root cause for mains being involved. I think clans are no longer capable of taking a loss. Instead, they will have an arsenal of accounts at any level bracket to win at all costs. I cannot speak for why Main clans would want to rag the pure scene, but I do believe the only way to deal with them is by sending a message (team against crash). 

Figured I should add, I do believe a "defense reset" would help revamp the scene. Of course, there will always be 1 defense pures that join clans regardless of the current defense cap. However, I think a defense reset would be good for newer clanning community. 

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5 hours ago, Tyendinaga said:

I have no interest in attempting to reconcile relationships with people who have actively gone out of their way to make both mine and the people whom I have represented for 6+ years as miserable as possible at every turn. 

You have reaped what you have sown. 

No need to reconcile relationships. Its up to the community that doesn’t include myself to make the decision to work on their communication with fellow leaderships or even themselves to fix the problem. I’m only a person, who is trying to stimulate some sort of discussion, where many clan members from every clan can read and comprehend different POVs. This discussion can also help with some sort of input as a former leader of your clan.

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Clan leaders aren't mature enough to keep it at 1-4 def, it'll never work. Didn't work before, it won't work now. They would rather kill the scene, instead of accepting losses. Hell, every pure clan claims to be #1 lol.

Clans should just start reverting to being meds and/or mains. Main clans will never let the pure scene be only pures, due to specific clans involving themselves with the main scene. 

 

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17 hours ago, Nieuwsgierige George said:

You think mains are the problem lmao? Weak leaderships are the problem. Weak clans constantly multi-clanning while crying about multi-clanning whenever it benefits their rivals.

 

Pure clans that literally beg mains to join them like FO, Z, BP, Apex are the reason clans like Rage and OG are packing serious heat. The hilarious thing is that now that certain clans have been broken by their usage and reliance on mains, they want people to magically forget they were the ones who started all of this shit.

 

Now all the victim clans will keep crying in CWA, not fixing anything and the clans who embrace the full power of helmet will control the scene.

You should try to look at the situation from an unbiased perspective, this is something that started out small and is now a problem for the entire scene, even for the ones who actually benefit from it now will suffer in the long term. 

Your post sadly makes close to no sense looking at the scene as a collective because if there is no scene there is no "helmets" in control either ;)

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6 hours ago, Dizzy said:

You should try to look at the situation from an unbiased perspective, this is something that started out small and is now a problem for the entire scene, even for the ones who actually benefit from it now will suffer in the long term. 
 

LMAO coming from a BP member who fought side by side with Green Army, Apex (when they were using mains), to compete vs OG, you're only proving my point. This was never a small thing it was always a growing and developing problem nobody cared to try and fix until the scene was finally too changed for the to recover.

 

6 hours ago, Dizzy said:


Your post sadly makes close to no sense looking at the scene as a collective because if there is no scene there is no "helmets" in control either ;)

Just because BP and others will close, does not mean there will ever be "no scene" LMAO. The scene always goes on, even if there's fewer than 90 people left split between 3 clans. And those remaining players will be the strongest helmets who adapt and overcome what's given to them courtesy of all the shit clan leaderships that brought this into the scene.

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no fucking way you guys are talking about reverting back to 1defence LMFAO. U guys literally did this shit when EoP was untouched/undefeated at 35def thinking it would change anything. Accept shit for how it is or keep crying either way clans that adapt live those who dont keep cry

 

 

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On 4/21/2021 at 2:26 PM, Dox17 said:

looks like the scene became the way it is due to the people in charge of the scene. complain to pure the leaders who bend the knee to rot, not the community.

no way ur taking this topic as an opportunity to cry about RoT farming ur clan

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On 4/22/2021 at 4:16 PM, Nieuwsgierige George said:

Now all the victim clans will keep crying in CWA, not fixing anything and the clans who embrace the full power of helmet will control the scene.

Well said agreed

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