Rant On A Touchy Subject.

[Chesty Puller]

We over glorify the fuck out of our military and don't tell me that's not true. I'm fucking sick of it. We live in a society that pressures our young men to join the military for "freedom, democracy, and your right to live a happy fucking life". It's all bullbrown sticky stuff. Nowadays kids sign that contract because they either want the fucking benefits which we can't afford or they were gullible enough to believe everything society told them. Then there are the masses that aimlessly show incredible gratitude towards the military saying brown sticky stuff like "respect your soldiers because they died so you can do whatever the fuck you want to do" because they live in a society that guilts the brown sticky stuff out of them for not going overseas to fight another mans unjustified war. We can go on all day back and forth if being involved in the middle-east is really protecting our country but let me tell you this. How the fuck are we going to tell people that we need to fight the "bad guys" in the middle east to protect our country when we're not doing a damn thing to simply protect our fucking borders from people we have no record of whatsoever. They are literally driving them here in bus loads. This mentality has been twisted way out of proportion. I've been on both sides of the spectrum. I signed that contract to serve straight after high school and I was on track to ship to parris island, my uncle is the head operations officer in Orange county for the recruiting headquarters and I helped him around the office to get a better perspective of things. I was gullible and naive. I convinced myself that destroying another mans country and way of life is the only way we can keep America safe from "terror". Half way through it I woke the fuck up and I'm glad I didn't walk onto that bus because if I did I would be supporting everything I was against. I am not a pacifist but I do not promote war either. War should be the last thing to come up in the political thought process. I believe war should only be waged in the defense of your countries and If that time ever comes I'll be the first to sign up. Anyways, I'm broccolied. broccolied enough to read your comments. Discuss.

[Lord Zach]

[Chesty Puller]

^This.

[Kevv]

I guess you're American, all this glorifying is not as bad in the UK but i agree with everything you said

[slushpuppy]

I think this mentality stems from the fact that America's military saved western Europe,  Asia from the Japs, and Asia again from communism. Certain aspects on the war on terror is despicable, like the contracting of private military and the siphoning of taxpayer monies into corrupt Iraqi and Afghan officials, however you cannot deny the fact that because of the war on terror, Al Qaeda is essentially a broken military organization.

 

Between 2001 and 2014, there has not been a single major successful attack by Al Qaeda on any civilian western targets in their home countries. Compare and contrast to the 1980s up to the run up of 2001, Al Qaeda was given the opportunity to attack targets of the western allies at will; the bombings of the beirut barracks, 1993 twin towers bombings, the 2001 sept attacks.

 

Al Qaeda and its offshoots have now resorted to conducting terrorist organization against its own people, inflaming public perception of Al Qaeda- previously they were thought to be a legit organization helping to get rid of foreigners.

 

Regardless, I wouldn't necessarily call the war on terror a success militarily, but it has helped achieved some of short term goals.

 

Another purpose of the military is force projection- peaceful or aggressive means.

 

The sheer size of the US military allows her to be at any where at any time, this is exceedingly useful for natural/man made disasters. Usually the first military to help out in any humanitarian crisis is the US military. The first ships on call during the MH370 search were those of the US navy. This lends credibility to the US brand. It instills trust that US, while powerful, is still willing to help anyone in need.

 

Ultimately, there needs to be balance in alot of things you do, but you cannot completely disregard the benefits and relevance of the military in peace times

[Sith-]

Murica!

[Chesty Puller]

I think this mentality stems from the fact that America's military saved western Europe,  Asia from the Japs, and Asia again from communism. Certain aspects on the war on terror is despicable, like the contracting of private military and the siphoning of taxpayer monies into corrupt Iraqi and Afghan officials, however you cannot deny the fact that because of the war on terror, Al Qaeda is essentially a broken military organization.

 

Between 2001 and 2014, there has not been a single major successful attack by Al Qaeda on any civilian western targets in their home countries. Compare and contrast to the 1980s up to the run up of 2001, Al Qaeda was given the opportunity to attack targets of the western allies at will; the bombings of the beirut barracks, 1993 twin towers bombings, the 2001 sept attacks.

 

Al Qaeda and its offshoots have now resorted to conducting terrorist organization against its own people, inflaming public perception of Al Qaeda- previously they were thought to be a legit organization helping to get rid of foreigners.

 

Regardless, I wouldn't necessarily call the war on terror a success militarily, but it has helped achieved some of short term goals.

 

Another purpose of the military is force projection- peaceful or aggressive means.

 

The sheer size of the US military allows her to be at any where at any time, this is exceedingly useful for natural/man made disasters. Usually the first military to help out in any humanitarian crisis is the US military. The first ships on call during the MH370 search were those of the US navy. This lends credibility to the US brand. It instills trust that US, while powerful, is still willing to help anyone in need.

 

Ultimately, there needs to be balance in alot of things you do, but you cannot completely disregard the benefits and relevance of the military in peace times

 

 

Spending trillions of dollars for a short term goal is what I would call a bad investment. Short term goals are why we even ended up in this situation. I do understand the need for a large military to an extent. It's because of our large military that people look to us to get them out of all their troubles, because they know we're capable and our military presence around the world obviously shows that. Why spend money to fix your problems when you can just call the guy next door with the big guns to fix them for you?

 

Our large military presence is partly the reason why we are expected to solve every little problem that other countries need to learn how to solve themselves. Because of our large military we have turned independent countries into dependent countries that get pissed every single time we are reluctant to do anything for them. It's like the MM and HF alliance back in 2010-2011.

 

We are in a financial crisis, we can't be spending money on things we can't afford. We were already reluctant on getting involved in the middle east due to that and that was 15 years ago, now we're fucked on both ends. We've made more enemies and fucked up the debt crisis. We can NOT be spending MORE money on brown sticky stuff that will keep us obligated to solving other peoples problems.

 

Yes we need a military during peace times but I don't think we should keep a big one. We have bases in too many countries where we don't need them. A large upkept navy and a few drones here and there with a sizeable marine corps would keep our enemies reluctant enough. The world has changed a lot over the last century. Now we are all connected through way of the internet and trade. We have a navy that could completely crush a nation financially, and we have a Marine Corps that has proven itself to be more than enough to be a quick and devastating force. People are scared enough of our drones.

[Chesty Puller]

Now let me get this straight. I applaud what we did during world war 2 and the Korean war. If it's a REAL threat, fucking squash it. But shady brown sticky stuff like "terror" nah. Too much to be skeptic about. I named my Runescape account Chesty Puller FFS. The most badass Marine to ever step on Guadalcanal.

[N_ate]

[Tumblr]

Death to amurica!

[Tom Valor]

[Bday]

[T0mmy]

I would like to clarify some things for you:

 

1.  Going halfway through the Dep isn't a valid credential to say you've been on both sides (or at least the serving side), all you did was consider enlisting then decide not to.

2.  I hope since starting this topic, (the currently expanding) isis has helped you see that U.S. Military presence in the middle east did have a positive global impact.

 

I think you might have valid concerns about whether or not we should be fighting another man's war or more broadly in the middle east (although i disagree- I think we should be there), but I don't like how you ended with if we're ever attacked you would be the first to sign up.  We were attacked multiple times as Slushpuppy pointed out.  For someone so gungho about the Marine Corps (or maybe you used to be), you should realize 220 US Marines were killed in the Beirut Barracks bombing in 1983 and I honestly have no idea how many Americans were killed on U.S. soil on 9/11.

 

I think Muslim Jihadist Extremists (etc) are dangerous people and they will strike again if they are given the opportunity. 

 

The problem for you I think is, you yourself don't truly value the U.S. military.  It probably annoys you when people expressed gratitude for your service when you hadnt even served yet and you started to get the idea that serving wasn't a big deal and people are just brainwashed into thinking it is. 

 

All I can say is, I don't think the U.S. Marine Corps is the right service for you if you really think we haven't been attacked in such a way that warrants us invading at least Iraq and you should consider changing your RuneScape name.  It personally offends me when you haven't earned the title yourself, have no real connection to the Marine Corps and tout that name as if it's proof you're a Marine or know what it's like to be a Marine/serve. 

 

On a side note:

I also agree with what we did in the Korean War and WW2, but it doesn't make sense to me that you would support us invading N. Korea but not Iraq.  Muslim Extremists were responsible for 9/11, what exactly did North Korea do that was worse than that?

[Yaq]

 

 

[Tom Valor]

 

 

 

 

[Austin]

Somebodys gotta do it... regardless of the political decisions that we cant really affect

[Beau]

This is a subject that could literally be structured into a 3 credit hour foreign policy college class, so we will not be able to dissect each issue.

 

I understand where you are coming from with our fiscal policy (too much spending) and foreign policy (being involved in other regions). You are not keeping incredibly important aspects of our situation in the middle east in mind. That region is not just of interest to the USA but also surrounding "Buffer" countries in that area. The dam in northern iraq which was taken by ISIS was a incredibly strategic point for the economic stability of Iraq, ISIS now has that. ISIS tried to and I may add almost gained control of the Oil line in the north as well, which of course would have greatly affected many countries, and ultimately involved them.

 

ISIS is not just a "Terrorist" group that we have seen the likes before, they are more funded and are actually dismantling the entire region at a faster pace.This is partly our fault or lets say Obama Admin. fault for not taking heed of this group and effectively dismantling it after AL Qaeda. In order to understand exactly how this all involved the US you must understand the history of the middle east. Among the groups in this entire region there are about 5 but the three that are most relevant in this multipolarity region are the Kurds, shia, and sunni's. I am not going to go into detail on the groups, but I highly suggest if you want to better understand what is going on there you do some research instead of just saying "why do we worry about other peoples blah blah."

 

You must keep in mind that their is a bigger potential problem that may arise from the end result in this region. If ISIS gains control over the Oil there that directly affects the US, and it also directly affects Russia, in case you did not notice, we already have some how should I say..History with the soviets?...oops I mean russia (too early Putin?)If this happens how will Russia respond? How will we in turn respond to Russia responding. We have the mess with Ukraine happening at the same time as well.. How will China respond as well? They are on the verge of getting our of their "century of humiliation," and they have been investing heavily off consumer revenue into their Navy. This Oil issue will involve many actors of which the USA is not friends with. Their is a concern of balance of power in the west and likewise in the east. Obviously any control over oil will greatly shift power to one of them. Many say this could even lead directly into another Cold War.

 

Israel, Israel is our direct and longtime ally in the middle east. We cannot get out of that one. We are a democratic country ok? We have obligations as such. What does Israel mean to ISIS and other radical groups? The Levant? If you dont know what that means then you absolutely need to research that. We have to side by Israel and protect it.

 

The world in which we live in Chesty is connected as you say. It is not just economically connected but it is far more in-depth than that. There are treaties that are signed that tie us into commitments into the far off future for which we have no science or knowledge to comprehend potential end results.

 

We also have an incompetent administration that chooses to fight three wars at the same time, and loses sight of the matters at hand by a failed policy which assumes things will somehow work themselves out, and in-turn we cannot even speculate or prepare for potential outcomes in the future.

 

Also,if we sit around and do nothing, that is potentially even worse. Why? well there are numerous reasons why depending on what aspect you want to sit here and peel off layer by layer. To name a few, by not participating we are opting out of a power race in the middle east. We are abandoning allies, which who knows what potential future implication that may have. What happens if nuclear capabilities fall into the hands of a regime like ISIS? Will "nuclear deterrence" which saved our ass and the Soviets ass in the cold war work again this time around? Is fear the biggest motivator for a regime that seems to have completely different idealogies and culture than ours? Sitting our of pivotal points in history can have advantages and huge disadvantages (france) to come. The question and the real decision is choosing the ones that are going to benefit your country in the long run.

 

So this isnt some "shady Terror" group anymore. It is a REAL problem. Before all of this post 9-11 and the dismantle of Al quaeda, would have been the time to squash it. Now it is just growing bigger and bigger, and becoming harder to squash. The problem here chesty isnt finding real "threats" and squashing them as you say, its squashing them before they become real threats.

 

Also, you speak of navy, you speak of USMC, and drones... all of this is completely irrelevant with a nuke.

[mitchh]

This is a subject that could literally be structured into a 3 credit hour foreign policy college class, so we will not be able to dissect each issue.

 

I understand where you are coming from with our fiscal policy (too much spending) and foreign policy (being involved in other regions). You are not keeping incredibly important aspects of our situation in the middle east in mind. That region is not just of interest to the USA but also surrounding "Buffer" countries in that area. The dam in northern iraq which was taken by ISIS was a incredibly strategic point for the economic stability of Iraq, ISIS now has that. ISIS tried to and I may add almost gained control of the Oil line in the north as well, which of course would have greatly affected many countries, and ultimately involved them.

 

ISIS is not just a "Terrorist" group that we have seen the likes before, they are more funded and are actually dismantling the entire region at a faster pace.This is partly our fault or lets say Obama Admin. fault for not taking heed of this group and effectively dismantling it after AL Qaeda. In order to understand exactly how this all involved the US you must understand the history of the middle east. Among the groups in this entire region there are about 5 but the three that are most relevant in this multipolarity region are the Kurds, shia, and sunni's. I am not going to go into detail on the groups, but I highly suggest if you want to better understand what is going on there you do some research instead of just saying "why do we worry about other peoples blah blah."

 

You must keep in mind that their is a bigger potential problem that may arise from the end result in this region. If ISIS gains control over the Oil there that directly affects the US, and it also directly affects Russia, in case you did not notice, we already have some how should I say..History with the soviets?...oops I mean russia (too early Putin?)If this happens how will Russia respond? How will we in turn respond to Russia responding. We have the mess with Ukraine happening at the same time as well.. How will China respond as well? They are on the verge of getting our of their "century of humiliation," and they have been investing heavily off consumer revenue into their Navy. This Oil issue will involve many actors of which the USA is not friends with. Their is a concern of balance of power in the west and likewise in the east. Obviously any control over oil will greatly shift power to one of them. Many say this could even lead directly into another Cold War.

 

Israel, Israel is our direct and longtime ally in the middle east. We cannot get out of that one. We are a democratic country ok? We have obligations as such. What does Israel mean to ISIS and other radical groups? The Levant? If you dont know what that means then you absolutely need to research that. We have to side by Israel and protect it.

 

The world in which we live in Chesty is connected as you say. It is not just economically connected but it is far more in-depth than that. There are treaties that are signed that tie us into commitments into the far off future for which we have no science or knowledge to comprehend potential end results.

 

We also have an incompetent administration that chooses to fight three wars at the same time, and loses sight of the matters at hand by a failed policy which assumes things will somehow work themselves out, and in-turn we cannot even speculate or prepare for potential outcomes in the future.

 

Also,if we sit around and do nothing, that is potentially even worse. Why? well there are numerous reasons why depending on what aspect you want to sit here and peel off layer by layer. To name a few, by not participating we are opting out of a power race in the middle east. We are abandoning allies, which who knows what potential future implication that may have. What happens if nuclear capabilities fall into the hands of a regime like ISIS? Will "nuclear deterrence" which saved our ass and the Soviets ass in the cold war work again this time around? Is fear the biggest motivator for a regime that seems to have completely different idealogies and culture than ours? Sitting our of pivotal points in history can have advantages and huge disadvantages (france) to come. The question and the real decision is choosing the ones that are going to benefit your country in the long run.

 

So this isnt some "shady Terror" group anymore. It is a REAL problem. Before all of this post 9-11 and the dismantle of Al quaeda, would have been the time to squash it. Now it is just growing bigger and bigger, and becoming harder to squash. The problem here chesty isnt finding real "threats" and squashing them as you say, its squashing them before they become real threats.

 

Also, you speak of navy, you speak of USMC, and drones... all of this is completely irrelevant with a nuke.

My yard needs a trim

[Chesty Puller]

I was pretty pissed when I made this topic and when I get pissed I can get pretty dumb. What I'm trying to say is I understand the importance of our military, but earlier that day I was talking to an old friend that signed up with me (and when I talk about my enlistment I'm trying to get you to understand that I have heard the opinions of service men and I know what they talk about behind the scenes and it pisses me off) and we got into an argument about why I opted out. It got heated and all I can say is I was mad pissed at what he said. He pretty much said we would have nothing in the future if it wasn't for his "sacrifice". I'm done dude. The kid was going to live with his parents for the next ten years working at a damn KFC if he didn't sign up and I'm the one that took his ass off the couch to go to the recruiters office. Sacrifice his ass. A lot of tomatos that sign up act like saints and don't tell me that's not true. Maybe I want to choose a path that doesn't make me question my involvement. Maybe I'd rather save lives every day in an ambulance for the rest of my life. Something I KNOW worth doing.

 

The point is they try to de-masculate normal dudes because they didn't sign up. It's a fucking recruiting tactic and trust me, I'm familiar with it. And I grew real tired of the type of brown sticky stuff they talk about normal citizens. It's dumb. It's not the fact that I'm scared to die. It's the fact that I'm scared of wasting my life for nothing.

 

Anyways like I said before, we can debate about this all we want but in the end opinions aren't going to change. I'm pretty solid about my opinion. We don't have the money or energy to get involved in another war. Let the other guy step up. We've been trying to save the world for too long. It's time for us to focus on our problems. Take care of the home team.

[Chesty Puller]

I would like to clarify some things for you:

 

1.  Going halfway through the Dep isn't a valid credential to say you've been on both sides (or at least the serving side), all you did was consider enlisting then decide not to.

2.  I hope since starting this topic, (the currently expanding) isis has helped you see that U.S. Military presence in the middle east did have a positive global impact.

 

I think you might have valid concerns about whether or not we should be fighting another man's war or more broadly in the middle east (although i disagree- I think we should be there), but I don't like how you ended with if we're ever attacked you would be the first to sign up.  We were attacked multiple times as Slushpuppy pointed out.  For someone so gungho about the Marine Corps (or maybe you used to be), you should realize 220 US Marines were killed in the Beirut Barracks bombing in 1983 and I honestly have no idea how many Americans were killed on U.S. soil on 9/11.

 

I think Muslim Jihadist Extremists (etc) are dangerous people and they will strike again if they are given the opportunity. 

 

The problem for you I think is, you yourself don't truly value the U.S. military.  It probably annoys you when people expressed gratitude for your service when you hadnt even served yet and you started to get the idea that serving wasn't a big deal and people are just brainwashed into thinking it is. 

 

All I can say is, I don't think the U.S. Marine Corps is the right service for you if you really think we haven't been attacked in such a way that warrants us invading at least Iraq and you should consider changing your RuneScape name.  It personally offends me when you haven't earned the title yourself, have no real connection to the Marine Corps and tout that name as if it's proof you're a Marine or know what it's like to be a Marine/serve. 

 

On a side note:

I also agree with what we did in the Korean War and WW2, but it doesn't make sense to me that you would support us invading N. Korea but not Iraq.  Muslim Extremists were responsible for 9/11, what exactly did North Korea do that was worse than that?

Those attacks happened a long time ago when I wasn't even born yet or when I was like 7. We've already responded accordingly and gotten rid of the organizations that attacked us. I never said I didn't support the invasion. I don't support the occupation. It's draining us out while fiscally we suffer at home. If we keep on the path we are going we will destroy ourselves and we won't be able to respond to calls of help. Countries that are able to do something need to get off their asses. We need to address our problems at home before we start helping others with theirs. I'm not claiming a title. I'm telling you that I've been around their mentality and quite frankly I get annoyed. I support Invading North Korea because they are a threat to my home turf. I am Half South Korean and it's time Korea be united once again. That is not America's problem to worry about though (but I would totes support). And I chose this name long before I depped in. I admire BarrelChest Puller. His mentality when it comes to facing obstacles is something I admire. He quite frankly doesn't give a brown sticky stuff, just rolls right through them. And what he did on Guadalcanal was legendary. You don't have to be a marine to recognize that. Funny because most of my military friends pretty much beg for the attention. I was raised by a military family all around so I'm not your average guy doping around assuming like I think I know what's going on. It's been in my family for generations. And when I say I'd sign up if we were ever to be attacked I'll be honest. I'd wait until we find out exactly who did it. No point shooting frank in the leg because Ben threw the apple.

[Beau]

@@Chesty Puller

 

I actually WAS in the Marine Corps, I actually did go to bootcamp in San Diego MCRD. I actually did complete MCT/MOS school and get assigned a unit in the "Fleet" Marine Corps, in North Carolina.

My own insight into this is that military service is more about personal interest now. There is no mission or patriotism like Chest Puller or John Basilone's time. They were the epitomization of what it meant to be a Marine. Now, although there are few within an already small force of marines who DO treat the spirit of the USMC as it should be, most do not care. Is this a structural anemia in the corps? I do not believe so because for the most part the traditions have stayed the same. It is instead a change of the times. I believe that most people today have lost the American tradition/pride that once built this great Nation. I also believe this is a result of a long line of subsumed cultures living in America. Not too long ago we adopted this idea of being multicultural as a form of "the American Way." Many other nation states around the world have adopted this same ideal in their own countries. We live now in a world where we are all globally mixed, and that will create over a long period of time a lack of pride in the nation states that these people migrate to. New cultures, new families will adopt and have their own ideas of the "American Dream" and they will place their own interests in themselves and their kids. Am i saying this is wrong? No I am not, I am simply saying that there is a shift happening that doesn't support the same sense of patriotism that used to be so prevalent.

[T0mmy]

Those attacks happened a long time ago when I wasn't even born yet or when I was like 7. We've already responded accordingly and gotten rid of the organizations that attacked us. I never said I didn't support the invasion. I don't support the occupation. It's draining us out while fiscally we suffer at home. If we keep on the path we are going we will destroy ourselves and we won't be able to respond to calls of help. Countries that are able to do something need to get off their asses. We need to address our problems at home before we start helping others with theirs. I'm not claiming a title. I'm telling you that I've been around their mentality and quite frankly I get annoyed. I support Invading North Korea because they are a threat to my home turf. I am Half South Korean and it's time Korea be united once again. That is not America's problem to worry about though (but I would totes support). And I chose this name long before I depped in. I admire BarrelChest Puller. His mentality when it comes to facing obstacles is something I admire. He quite frankly doesn't give a brown sticky stuff, just rolls right through them. And what he did on Guadalcanal was legendary. You don't have to be a marine to recognize that. Funny because most of my military friends pretty much beg for the attention. I was raised by a military family all around so I'm not your average guy doping around assuming like I think I know what's going on. It's been in my family for generations. And when I say I'd sign up if we were ever to be attacked I'll be honest. I'd wait until we find out exactly who did it. No point shooting frank in the leg because Ben threw the apple.

You realize we are out of Iraq and Afghanistan now?  Like next to no one is deploying there anymore and its not like people stay there for extended periods of time.  And right when we started downsizing our military and pulling out, the whole ISIS thing started happening.

 

To me, you just seem to view things your way.  You're half Korean so you totally would be fine with America sending troops or financial support to help S. Korea but NO NO NO helping the people who want help in Afghanistan, Iraq and the rest of the middle 

 

"Funny because most of my military friends pretty much beg for the attention."

That just seems out of context and I find it hard to believe based on my personal experiences.

[Chesty Puller]

You realize we are out of Iraq and Afghanistan now?  Like next to no one is deploying there anymore and its not like people stay there for extended periods of time.  And right when we started downsizing our military and pulling out, the whole ISIS thing started happening.

 

To me, you just seem to view things your way.  You're half Korean so you totally would be fine with America sending troops or financial support to help S. Korea but NO NO NO helping the people who want help in Afghanistan, Iraq and the rest of the middle 

 

"Funny because most of my military friends pretty much beg for the attention."

That just seems out of context and I find it hard to believe based on my personal experiences.

I can say the same thing. The middle east is always going to be the middle east. There is too much history and culture going on there and It's not going to change lol. They've been through worse than us. But in the end we both have different opinions. We're lucky enough that you have a different opinion thank god.

[hen-ry]

people who join the military are broccolied

[Twitch]

only reason were over there is oil and opium fields. USA funds itself on wars. You may be fighting for your brothers but in the end your fighting for $$.