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Witchcraft

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Posts posted by Witchcraft

    The state of the current polling system

    in Submit A Suggestion

    Posted

    Quick update: Posted this on reddit a week or two ago and it didn't get the attention necessary to make it to front page (gunna take a wild guess and say it was probably too long :lol: + it was around the same day that JaGex released another 300k+ android beta invites so it got buried in all of those posts too)
    The few replies it did get were things like "If we had to vote on forums, nobody's going to bother".

    I might consider trying to reduce the explanation (a lot more) and repost it at some stage...

    The state of the current polling system

    in Submit A Suggestion

    Posted

    39 minutes ago, Dynamic said:

    They know very well that this is going on but as you've seen they only care to change it if there's enough uproar on reddit or twitter.

     

    You should post it on reddit, will be interesting to see what kind of response it gets. Reddit is the best way to get jagex's attention.

    I'll try posting it on reddit. Will probably just turn into a flame war but whatevs :unsure:

    The state of the current polling system

    in Submit A Suggestion

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Jaya Bee said:

    and then create another event more geared toward solo pkers 

    I can't remember where, but I heard recently that they were considering some sort of 'world of warcraft-esque' 2v2, 3v3 5v5 arena with a ladder system and cosmetic reqards.
    Unsure how reliable the source is though.

    The state of the current polling system

    in Submit A Suggestion

    Posted

    3 hours ago, Dynamic said:

    This is a well written post but won't achieve anything, it's been this way for quite a while now.

    If anything, I'm hoping jagex cancels this dmm cancer to host clan-pvp tournaments with a prize pool, that could really make clanning interesting.

     

    Yeah... I do agree with yourself and @Finest —this is a pipe dream.
    I just can't understand why/how they don't see these issues with the polling system... or how they're choosing to ignore it if they *are* aware.

    Regarding clan tournaments—that format would've made the most sense for Jagex's debut into competitive 'esports'. Then they could actually host events for clans and fans to attend and get a bit of hype going with a knockout system.
     

    The state of the current polling system

    in Submit A Suggestion

    Posted

    12 minutes ago, slushpuppeh said:

    I have passed it along for you to a discord that Mod Ayiza idles in for community suggestions.

    Personally, I feel Jagex should play a duopoly strategy where certain updates that should be polled, be polled while retaining sole deciding autonomy on niche updates

    Thank you!
    And yes, some of these updates are too important to be left to a bias majority...

    The state of the current polling system

    in Submit A Suggestion

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Finest said:

    yep, the reddit community & pvm community control what comes into the game. nothing will ever change unfortunately. however i do have some hopes because mod sween, he seems like he has a brain & hopefully he pushes some pking content & pure content. otherwise, enjoy every pvm/slayer update for the remaining of the years you'll be playing because god damn this community is fucked

    deep down I know youre right

    The state of the current polling system

    in Submit A Suggestion

    Posted

    Problem

    What is the problem?

    The current update polling system is bias and broken.

    disclaimer: This is not solely my idea. I know many players in the PvP community are aware of this (and are frustrated) and have potentially raised the issue in other forums.

    As it stands in order for a concept to make it into the game—it first has to pass a poll. 
    The requirements for passing a poll is to reach a 75% majority vote of acceptance.
    A person can vote on a poll ONCE on EVERY ACCOUNT they own as long as it has MEMBERSHIP.

    This basic form of democracy comes with many flaws—two of which seem to be working simultaneously to give us our current flawed/unbalanced polling system.
    summarized below as:

    • "Lack of education"
      "Voters may not be educated enough to exercise their democratic rights prudently"
      There seems to be two examples of this happening:

      Firstly—Very few of the players, if any at all, are game designers. This role exists within the industry for a reason, designers/developers have experience in what makes a game fair/balanced/not too easy/not too hard, how the addition of certain items/effects can change a games meta for the better or worse.
      I don't have anything to back up the following claim but I would put money on the 'fact' that less than 10% of the voter base actually consider the wider effects that an item or an update could have on the metagame. Most players vote solely on the 'cool factor' of an update ie. How much ridiculous damage can I hit, or what ridiculous amount of xp/money can I get.
      This results in power creep and the degradation of games difficulty—these two effects impact the game negatively in that it discourages diversity of play style and equipment (see 126 edge bridding aka. "ags/maul/tabbing") and the devaluation of achievements (see Runescape 3 aka "get 99 rcing by afking for 2 weeks"). The game becomes repetitive, boring and unfulfilling.

      Secondly—We have players voting on content which they are not engaged with/do not understand/in no way affects them (This leads quite nicely into the next polling flaw of "Mob rule"). If a PvMer is asked (for want of a better example) if teleblock should extend to f2p they're obviously going to vote no. Their whole goal in this game is to NOT die.
      This doesn't mean that extending teleblock to f2p is a BAD idea. It just means the majority of voters are acting on their own impulses rather than considering what makes for a balanced game. There is currently no way to output enough damage in (singles) wilderness to PK someone skilling before they're able to teleport—this is not balanced. The wilderness is supposed to be high risk, high reward and particularly in f2p right now it's low risk.
      Another example (don't quote me because I may be wrong) but it sounds like the off hand ranged "Bolas/net" isn't going to pass vote. These were in no way overpowered considering the operate effect would use spec bar... But because the majority of players are voting impulsively due to their aversion to dying, they vote no. These would have been a great addition to gear/build and strategy diversity without breaking the PKing meta (and tbh probably would mostly have been used by Nrangers in clw in conjuntion with acb/elder maul)
      Yet here we have uneducated (or at the very least uninvolved) PvMers seeing the addition of a PvP specific item and instantly voting no because "I don't want more options for players to kill me in the wilderness" (even though the majority probably ventures into the wilderness < twice a week)

       
    • "Mob rule/Oppression by the majority"
      I'm not sure what the actual statistic is but the PvP community is clearly outnumbered by the PvM community. Players who are given the right to vote about content they don't care about tend to push false opinions to entertain themselves (see every meme about voting, pking and skillers on r/2007scape)
      Players are drawn into the idea that it's an 'us Vs them' situation and that everything must be done to oppress the otherside—including voting maliciously and or/creating polling propaganda topics to sway others to 'side' with them and vote against the 'opposition'
      Rivalries between different groups of players can be entertaining and fun but it becomes detrimental when one side has the majority of the votes and is essentially determining the outcome of future content without considering the wider effects these updates could have.

    How does it affect clanning?

    We as a community of clans are deprived of potential, positive updates to osrs PvP, due to thoughtless voting and the ongoing 'rivalry/hatred/dislike' between players who engage primarily in PvM and those who engage primarily in PvP.

    Additional effects and notes

    Note: I understand that polling was introduced post EOC, due to the backlash JaGex received after making game-breaking decisions behind closed doors. I'm not saying that a polling system is a bad idea. It was a good idea. It was a big step in the right direction... however after 5 years of OSRS (or however long it's been) the game (and the polling system) is beginning to mature. We are seeing trends in the way in which updates are introduced into the game... some of which have a negative impact on the meta-game and should be addressed.

    Note: It is obviously an impossible task for the osrs team to please every single one of their players with every update—however I believe someone somewhere must have (at least an idea for) a better system than the one we are currently subjected to.
     

    DzFixGs.png

    Solution

    Identifying the problem is the easy part and I'm not necessarily attempting to propose one single solution... I'd rather try to encourage brainstorming ways in which the problem could at the very least be lessened (maybe this isn't the correct board/forum for this conversation...idk)

    My own thoughts on the matter would be to segment the game into it's different aspects (they managed to do this for the 2019 content poll... something along the lines of PvP, Skilling, Bossing, Raiding, questing, minigames etc).
    After these game aspects have been segmented JaGex could utilize their current (mostly unused) facilities like the official forums and player moderation. 
    Each game aspect could have its own dedicated board on the forums where future updates are discussed and evaluated. There could be ingame/forum representatives (essentially pmods) assigned to each game aspect who would be in charge of facilitating constructive discussion, feedback and criticism in these boards.
    There would be a minimum requirement to participate in the discussion of each game aspect ie. Skilling might require 2000+ total, Raiding might require 100kc CoX and 100kc ToB... maybe these are too high but you get the point (the aspect facilitator mods may have to have higher reqs and/or be known and trusted in their respective communities. Maybe they're voted in?).
    PvP requirements would be a little more difficult to measure but we have BH kill trackers... It could be as simple (or difficult idk) as adding a PvP world kill tracker and wilderness kill tracker.

    It would be within these forums that ideas are proposed, debated and then voted on to be implemented into the game. Obviously a player could participant in the discussion and voting on update ideas across different game aspects so long as they meet the requirements to join the forum/board.

    The biggest challenge: This is not a perfect solution as none of these game aspects operate within a bubble. For example, a lot of skilling/bossing takes place in the wilderness... and bossing/raiding affects PvP in that it usually provides the equipment players use to PK. So there would be overlap. Boards/forums may potentially have to collaborate in the discussion/voting process? and I'm not sure how this would work (or if it would work at all)
    Maybe this is where JaGex needs to step up as the product owner/game designers to make the executive decision.

    A second challenge in implementing a system like this would be transparency.  One of the plus sides to the current polling system is the addition of poll booths in game. Any player can (without going too much out of their way) click on a poll booth in a bank and have their 'say'. Relocating this decision making process to a forum would definitely reduce the amount of player participation in the development of the game. TBH I don't really see this as a negative—if someone can't be bothered taking a few minutes out of their day to browse what's being proposed to happen in the aspects of the game they are interested in, are they really going to have anything constructive to say in the first place?
    Maybe the polling booths could be replaced by something that provides an in game view of the discussions that are taking place in the forums, thus prompting the user viewing them to go and get involved on the forums.

    I feel like this would eliminate the two main  issues ('lack of education/involvement' and 'mob rule/oppression') our current polling system creates—PvMers/PvPers wouldn't be able to maliciously sabotage an update which barely affects them if they aren't actively involved in those communities.
    It would potentially allow a less biased discussion and voting system which may then allow some of the other great ideas being proposed on this board (That would never pass if they were voted on in our current system)

    Any and all feedback welcome.
    (Been thinking about this a bit lately and I've rushed this post on my lunch break so it may not be particularly coherent or complete)


    TLDR:
    Problem:
    Voting is flawed because of malicious and or thoughtless voting

    Proposed solution (Constructive feedback/criticism welcomed):
    Segment the games development into the different categories discussed in the 2019 content poll.
    Provide forums with minimum requirements to participate within which ideas relating to that game aspect are discussed/validated/voted on.
    Each forum would have a team of player facilitators/moderators who are trusted/experienced members of the community they represent
    For a more in depth explanation, including some challenges this idea would have to overcome to be viable read the full topic
     

    Source

    Details

    rsn: OCCULTlST
    clan: Misfits

  24. Revenant Cave Rewards: Revisited, Content Poll & Theatre of Blood

    in RuneScape Updates

    Posted

    On 6/27/2018 at 12:00 PM, Sharkbrew Bot 2.0 said:
     
    hr.pngBarbed Rete
    The Rete was a weapon utilised by bandits that hailed from the Kharidian Desert. Known to be fierce followers of the Empty Lord, they were frequently sent on snatching missions to disrupt the growth of Zamorakian forces after their leader was betrayed. Many met untimely ends all over Forinthry during these missions and their ancient nets eventually found homes within the caves of long dead warriors. The Barbed rete is a tradeable offhand requiring 60 Ranged to equip. When the rete is charged with a minimum of 1000 Revenant ether, a special effect "It's a trap!" can be used by right-clicking it, similar to how the Dragonfire shield special effects work. On a successful "It's a trap!" hit, the opponent will be unable to move for 20 seconds and will be poisoned. This has a 15 second cooldown and costs 10 Revenant ether per charge.
    Barbed_rete3.png
    The accuracy of the Barbed rete's special effect is based on your opponents ranged defence (scaling from 0 - 500) & weight (scaling from 0kg - 50kg). Your opponent can reduce the time they are held for by attacking the player who has trapped them. Each attack will remove 5 seconds from the overall time. Example 1 If a trapped opponent attacks back with regular darts, after 4 attacks on rapid (4.8 seconds), they will be able to move again. Example 2 If a trapped opponent attacks back with a crossbow, after 3 attacks on rapid (9 seconds), they will be able to move again.

    Would be cool and interesting in clw. ring would be interesting in high wildy pkris

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