Ivp

haha must have been a bad day for them if they lost to NME in p2p in CW, fairly sure these sort of clans focused on that particular game mode and totally disregarded wilderness/f2p etc so you'd expect better, really. Although my encyclopedic knowledge of pure clanning has rarely failed me, these small p2p only clans all melt into one big blur at this stage. From what I remember clans like Frenzy had a tendency to recruit loads of maxed 25-35 defense people who then proceeded to grind 10+ hours a day to get the latest saradomin hydrogen bomb or whatever the latest gimmick was, and then mini with the same 10 people for the remaining 10 hours of playing time a day - which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but the dead weight that wernt allowed to mini were easily spotted in larger opt fights which allowed NME (admittedly a mediocre p2p cw clan) to steal a few wins here and there. As for my favorite rivalries, theres been a load of cool ones over the years but I will say the two that stand out (and coincidentally are both the two most one sided rivalries ive ever seen); Zo vs Logic and Dr R a g e vs the border police.

Some strange replies in this topic haha. Combat caps? At this stage? It makes absolutely no sense and is counter intuitive. The scene is far beyond the point of needing combat caps, why the hell are these clan leaders choosing to keep them? Initially, with the three organised 'LPC' waves the combat caps were put in place for 3 reasons Keep all ~10 clans in the scene on an even footing with a -65 combat cap which meant all 10 clans could compete with each other at similar level ranges. Remain low enough level so that other predatory clans couldn't crash/interrupt the LPC scenes fights. 65 combat and below is an achievable goal for new members of the community and/or returning players to catch up to. The level cap was in place to promote competition amongst all 10 clans equally rather than a single clan becoming really dominant in a short amount of time and obliterating everyone else, with the beneficial side effect of staying out of HPC clans way (65 combat is way too low for a HPC crash to be effective). People are talking about 85 combat caps? 83? 87? There is zero reason or benefits for any sort of combat cap after level 70, and its needlessly stunting your clans growth. Remove them all together, stay in the 'B League' Pking times by all means but having a combat cap is useless, especially when theirs stuff like 'exceptions' in preps. If combat caps are removed, you will still be able to attack your competition in the wilderness at virtually any wildy level. Why would they possibly be needed now that the scene is established and active? The only reason they were ever implemented are for the three reasons above, prior to EOC and for the 7~ years before that 'combat caps' weren't a common thing, and I struggle to understand why they've become such a prominent thing now that there are no more LPC's around.

There's a bunch that would be cool; Epidemic and NME so I could participate in the game again. DP, IR, Dv, Control for some top clans that would make an impact on the upper echelons of pure clanning. Malice, EF and a couple of others to act as bridges between the LPC scene and HPC scene, that way more 'LPCs' would be willing to try moving towards unifying the community. Would be good to see but it seems like other than the 'usual suspects' (ie clans that reopen several times in various incarnations) most of the older influential clans are finished for good, and the new generation of clans seem to be getting a solid foothold in the history books so can't see any of the clans mentioned reopening.

PCT is probably the most successful event to date, but when talking about community events the only three realistic contenders are the aforementioned PCT, Red vs Blue, and although not an 'event' per se it spawned multiple excellent events; the RAW list. PCT was great because it had pre defined rules that actually made sense and went off pretty much without a hitch, and had all the clans involved in it to some degree which made it feel like an authentic competition capable of deciding which clans were the best in all the various categories. The Red Vs Blues have become progressively worse events since the first one years and years ago, but that still doesn't detract from that first event which really was a success for the pure community in the amount of hype it generated for all clans involved. The actual event, which was at that point the biggest fight in the pure community, was also alot of fun from what I remember. The RAW list was good at the time and created multiple memorable full outs, its a shame that it became a complete mess towards the end. Regardless, the stuff that it did achieve means it was definitely an important 'event' in the history of the pure community.

There is already a topic to post top lists on; http://www.sharkbrew.com/community/index.php?/topic/2681-top-pure-clan-list/

I'm not in TLP

Good news, nice to see the LPC scene come so far in a relatively short amount of time. Good luck Allen and co, enjoy it

Nice job Severance, keep it up.

Cool topic, great job AAO looked like loads of fun. Keep it up.

Enemy [NME] is the greatest clan initials of all time, i'm struggling to think of one better. Let me know if there is one, but there isn't. /modest I thought of it initially and presented the idea to Jib, who agreed it was an awesome name and we opened the clan about a week later. I like the three letter'ed names, EOP, TLP etc which contributed somewhat towards NME. Outside of that I like Fi, probably for the fact even 10 years after the start of the pure community its pretty original; what other successful pure clans has there been using the initial F in particular? None, I'd wager. FOE is cool and of course uses the F initial like Fatality but from being around in the discussions from when that decision to add the E on the end was ocurring, it was somewhat of a happy accident. Regardless, FOE is of course pretty cool. All clans that make something of themselves make their initials live on in one way or another. But yeah, Enemy [NME]. Jeeeeeez!

The combat cap for LPC's was implemented at the beginning of the first LPC wave in '14 as an agreement among the ~7 clans that opened together to promote competition and growth. Collectively it was agreed on a number of stuff such as a logical combat cap, defense cap, even a memberlist cap so that all 7 clans could grow at the same pace and fight each other under fair conditions without one clan sprinting ahead and annihilating the entire scene and rendering it obsolete. This worked well and thus, 7 clans grew into contenders rather than a monopoly by one single clan that quickly outlevel'ed / outnumbered the other clans. All because of the combat cap and checks and balances in place. That is the ONLY reason there was ever a defined combat cap. Now, there isn't and shouldn't be a standard combat cap for ANY clans, and they should create one based on their own circumstances if need be. Which brings me full circle to your 'problem' of having to compete with MPC's, which I honestly don't really see as a problem. There is a pervading sense of entitlement in clanning today, particular with LPCs and MPCs; if a clan is out leveled, they won't even attempt to get around that situation but would rather bury their head in the sand and flame them on sharkbrew for being MPC's. LPC's need to man up and realise that if they are not willing to train their levels to match these MPC's, then they need to bump pulls and organisation instead to entirely negate the levels. This is how successful LPC's functioned in the past, by relying on everything else OTHER than levels. Having a win over a clan considered as MPC when your clan is severely outlevelled will do absolute wonders for morale and the growth of the low levelled clans, far more than fighting massers or whatever people do. Every LPC's strategy should be to outorganise and outnumber these MPC clans so that YOUR clan comes out on top. Not totally avoid fighting them cos they outlevel you a little bit. Like I said in the previous post, a complete lack of ambition makes the HPC scene far more entertaining than the LPC scene.

Wrong, in fact the only time large scale (100~) opt fights have taken place is when low level clans have been thriving. If you take any historical precedent of 'up' periods in pure clanning history theres a direct correlation between how successful and competitive low level clanning is to the activity and competition in the higher leveled clan scene. The actual relationship between the two would take too long to explain here so to summarise the general rule seems to be that low level clans reflect on the high level clans. To provide a recent example of a similar situation, prior to Zu/Sup etc opening and snowballing the entire LPC scene last year there were 5 pure clans remaining in the pure community with the '#1' clan pulling 40 or 50. Compare that to now in which the top 3 or 4 clans are pulling 80+ intermittently even hitting 100 on occasion, and the rest below them pulling very healthy numbers the pure community as a whole being in the best position its been in since 2009, and thats both LPCs and HPCs. Speaking of 2009, it was the "LPC" scene that gave birth to Epidemic and DP, two of the most successful clans of that time period (amongst others such as Ascendancy, Calamity etc who made their own mark in their own ways). This crossover is pretty much the blueprint for what the low level clanning scene SHOULD be aiming towards. That being said, I personally prefer the higher level'ed clanning experience because clans should always be striving to be the best and aiming for #1. The LPC scene clans of today seems to be far too happy to claim something like "#1 low level matched" or other such crap when in reality all that means is that that clan is #9 matched overall or whatever. The main problem with the current LPC scene is a lack of ambition.

It's great to see how far both clans have come from being two of the founding clans of the first LPC wave, well done guys and happy birthday

They don't hide the fact they're massers, as they've taken a completely different approach to their clan which from the looks of things is working well for them. Looks at Hon0r, that guys been having fun for years. Either way, your stating the obvious and nothing positive is gonna come from this topic so i'll go ahead and close it.

The RAW list worked from 06>08 because it had always been a backbone of the community and actually worked; the biggest fight in pure clanning history at that point was a 2 week prep RAW war between Fi/EOP for #1 F2P which went off with minimal problems, and was a MASSIVE event for the entire pure community. Coupled with a tonne of other successful full out RAW wars, it led to the authentication of the list as people saw it worked and thus their own clans participated in full outs. Following this, after a few years of big fullouts that for the most part benefited both clans the winner and the loser, losing became more stigmatized by the community than it had been. Relationships between clan leaders soured in attempts to save face by not losing or whatever, so rules couldn't be determined or stuck to. Clans began to be more active in their attempts not to lose (at any cost). The real cascade started when MM left the RAW list sometime in 08 because it was clear they would lose to a certain clan that had just declared on them. This led to the RAW list losing authenticity, and took even more blows as a few more clans left the list, following MM. I think at one point IR was #1 on it, which really goes to show how terribly wrong it was working and the community realised that. Full outs stopped, and the RAW list was disbanded. It got revived in '10/'11 but even at that point it was clear it wouldn't work like it once did because the leaderships of clans had begun to change and wanted all the advantages in a fight and thus full outs became a source of drama. Once again top clans such as MM/CP disregarded the list and authenticity was lost. Now, its 2015 and the pure community has clans who are led by people who weren't around to see how the RAW list COULD work to benefit their clans. Looking at the mentality of the prep topics posted on this forum, and even menial stuff such as the 10 vs 10 CWF tourney, its clear that ANY full outs, RAW list or none, are virtually impossible because theres always some sort of drama surrounding fights which means they can't be definitive winners or losers. The people involved in leading alot of the clans around today can't afford a loss because their clans are built the wrong way, so they'll do anything to avoid it. Losing something as monumental as a full out for these clans would be catastrophic hence, the lack of full outs for the last couple of years, and also why it'd be inactive which makes the entire thing redundant. It'd be cool to see a functioning RAW list but unfortunately in this day and age a RAW list simply can't function.

Nice one Zu, keep it up

With the two LPC waves pretty much completed successfully, the community has found the 'sweet' spot in the sense that no more mass clan openings has to be manufactured like we did twice with the two seperate LPC waves. Instead we have done enough and clans can now open organically open by themselves and find a competitive bracket to fit into. For the pure community to thrive history has proven that there is a need for a range of clans, from top tier clans ("HPC clans") all the way to low pulling and/or low leveled clans that make up the bottom tier clans. This allows newly opened clans to find themselves a spot, usually towards the very bottom of a hypothetical 'rankings' list which is the most common place for newly opened clans to begin getting fights and competition. Prior to the LPC waves there was no 'bottom tier' of clanning so new clans simply couldn't open. The LPC waves forcefully injected this bottom tier into the community, and now new clans can open of their own volition. Examples of this are AAO/Chaotic/Doom etc, who opened by themselves without the support of a 'wave' of competition opening with them, and are proving to have success. Anyway, to get to answering the questions in the original post; yeah I believe 2015 can be and probably will be somewhat of a rebirth for clanning. If you list all the pure clans right now we have Thats 20+ clans, there hasn't been that many 'official' clans since '10 probably which is definitely a step in the right direction, and a pretty good indication we'll be entering a 'golden age' of clanning yet again. To answer the topic title, do I believe any more pure clans will reopen? I think its inevitable we'll see a few clans from the past springing up, some of these suckas can't seem to stop themselves reopening their clans or whatever but either way its a good thing and now is the IDEAL time to open/reopen a clan. Depending on the situation in the pure community in the next month or so i'd be interested in opening a new clan, its unlikely i'd ever reopen Epidemic or NME at this stage, so if I did return to playing RS It'd be to open the third clan in the trilogy that began with E and NME. I've already got a pretty solid plan laid out for it and have spoken to a tonne of old Epidemic/NME staff and members over the last few months, so if the final pieces of the jigsaw fit into place that'd be cool to have a combination of Epidemic+NME style with a few new faces in a new clan. But we'll see, Im in the enviable position of being able to if I want to, which I might not, but either way I'm in no rush. As for other clans I'd like to see reopen, MM would be cool to see how they'd fit into the current pure community

Hello guys Alot of guys around the pure community don't actively play runescape and only come on for clan events on the weekend and throughout the week, and in their other spare time they often play other online pvp games. I'm curious to know how many of you have clanned on other games. As I understand it games like LoL and WOW etc support clanning/guilds, so, what other games do you guys play and do you actively clan on these games? To get the ball rolling; Throughout the 10+ years I've played a couple of online Pvp games. I was once part of the leadership on a top 200 guild on Guild Wars 1 which was probably the most competitive game i've clanned on. I played an old game Star Wars game called Jedi Academy 2 which came which consisted of 8 vs 8(ish) team deathmatches with lightsabers which was absolutely awesome back when it was first released in 03 and still has a sizable community playing. Played a game called Gunz with the original Epidemic people back in 07 which was fun for a time period. I also clanned a little on Guild Wars 2 with some of the old GW1 gang which was quite cool but never really had the time to dedicate myself to it. Anyway, what about you guys? How is your experience of clanning on these other games compared to RS clanning?

You really love to comment on other peoples lives haha, very strange. Probably making up for a lack of substance in your own private life, but I digress. Either way, as pretty much the entire topic points out, pretty pathetic on behalf of the perpetrators so I'll do 'Team Enormity' a favour and save them further embarrassment by closing this.

Its really difficult to decide one year in particular, I have a few that each have their own factors that made it fun. 1.) 2005 - Was just so enjoyable as pures seemed to explode in popularity at this time. Clans didn't really have 'trips' but rather were more like groups of actual friends who PK'ed together at castle etc, almost solely in P2P until later on. Not to mention, Mauls and Whips had just come out, with the bugged maximum or 0 spec hits, which is probably the most fun i've had in the wilderness. 2.) 2007- 30ish clans on the RAW list, packed wilderness, fairly decent 'honor' system that clans stuck to. Fairly tight knit community with clans with their own distinct personalities. Epic wildy fights almost daily if they were wanted. The clanning community was snowballing and growing bigger and bigger each day, until the wildy was removed which put a downer on it. 3.) 2009 - Started in 2009, but went into 2010. In my opinion the absolute pinnacle of competitive clan warring with the introduction of pvp worlds. The pure community was finally getting back on track after BH Craters and PCL era, and almost every clan could theoretically compete with each other, which meant fights and rivalries were really exciting and interesting. 4.) Pre EOC 2012'ish was pretty fun too in that the pure community was changing alot with 30 def becoming pretty normal. Lots of fun for what it was but realistically even at the time everyone realised the glory days were over. Seems like peak years comes in waves, every 2 years by the looks of things. To put an actual decisive answer out there, gotta be 2009 which extended a little bit into '10.

This topic isn't your best work, pretty rambling and incoherent. I know you can do better. I'll let you off this time because I like you but your next one must be better, otherwise 'Nick Hamilton' will suffer the same fate as 'Hassan'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsu-Zez-XDs Best played with sound. There is alot of classic CP videos

Great job CP an excellent win for you guys.

Goodluck both teams, hope you guys have a fun time

Talking completely pre-eoc and not taking 07scape into consideration, I think in terms of consistency across their respective lifespans, MM were superior to FOE if taking both servers into account. In P2P FOE were rarely taken away from the top spot since the middle of 2007, but by the same merit they never really sped away ahead of the competition, which for years was pretty much only MM and Fi. There was always the possibility of MM competing with them, or Fatality for periods of time. MM never dropped below top 3 for any significant period in the p2p server and FOE would be fighting MM predominantly for most of their reign as #1. In the F2P server, however, whilst FOE did have one awesome run as #1 F2P for a long time, for the rest of their 8 or 9 year rivalry it was MM as the #1 F2P clan fighting with various challengers to that; EOP, Fi, E etc. FOE always seemed to take a backseat to the challengers, and usually drifted around #3 or #4 and realistically coudn't ever compete with enough ferocity or consistency to dethrone MM in F2P the majority of the time. Either way, thats just my perspective and both clans are the #1 and #2 clans of all time, irrespective of what position they are placed in.