Wilderness Clan of the Month-December

[Acid]

The fuck

[Andy]

???

 

u went full potato

[Aged k0]

So only pulls count and not performance?

[Finest]

gj

[Datassd0e]

Rage is the most active period, if we posted a topic everyday we could've beat every clan by a landslide.

Control pker lives in varrock, which is why our activity is so high;).

[King Dete]

Knew we would win =) 

Envy #1

 

@@krat0s @@0verl0wd @@Ebag @@Winz @@EV Ice @@Dete Now

Was ez 

[slushpuppy]

Rage + CD (70) beat Doom + SD + Envy (110) yesterday. Do you understand how ridiculous and trivial this reward is? If you need me to show reasoning behind this I could. I'm hoping/assuming Slush had nothing to do with this, he seemed a lot more smart/reasonable than whoever did this.

 

Actually I helped in the conceptualization these awards. We have plans to include KDR in the calculations in the future when jagex creates that api link.

 

Just counting opts is not sheer madness. Contrary to popular rhetoric, there is quality in quantity. Wilderness wins are generally determined by who was cleared from a certain area. Having a significantly higher opt count theoretically allows you to soak more damage while dishing out more of from your own. Yes there are plenty of instances where lower opt clan beat a higher opt clan, but how often does that happen? I think if you were to look at the overall rivalries in 2015, the pulls and the end results, it is safe to say that opts does matter and it should not be disregarded.

[Fudog]

Where the hell is our award? Trial my ass pay up wiggers just bc tlp didn't win doesn't mean u can't be bias towards sv.

[Jim]

xlpc scene is easy as fuck lmao

[Lenin]

Actually I helped in the conceptualization these awards. We have plans to include KDR in the calculations in the future when jagex creates that api link.

 

Just counting opts is not sheer madness. Contrary to popular rhetoric, there is quality in quantity. Wilderness wins are generally determined by who was cleared from a certain area. Having a significantly higher opt count theoretically allows you to soak more damage while dishing out more of from your own. Yes there are plenty of instances where lower opt clan beat a higher opt clan, but how often does that happen? I think if you were to look at the overall rivalries in 2015, the pulls and the end results, it is safe to say that opts does matter and it should not be disregarded.

 

Never said it was madness, but trivial and ridiculous. You're assuming that clans go at it one against one without being crashed. More and more clans are now temp teaming with each other to take on others, and from time to time they actually win. Envy are a new MPC that will not be able to win for 2-3 months until they get experience and actually settle in to MPC, but they are pulling way higher than anybody in MPC. Science calls for precise calculations and conclusions, and if alternatives exist why settle for a somewhat accurate representation of whats happening in the wilderness. Some days clans barely get any action because the pulls have varied greatly and end up at clan wars, yet any clan putting their pull number up will be regarded as significant when in fact it wasn't.

 

KDR is definitely worthy, as it gives a sight to who actually won in comparison to all clans involved with the last clan standing in that field (returning is a great aspect of wars).

[Persian Tom]

Rage is the most active period, if we posted a topic everyday we could've beat every clan by a landslide.

Control pker lives in varrock, which is why our activity is so high;).

Then you should post topics on here whenever you have a midweek!

Where the hell is our award? Trial my ass pay up wiggers just bc tlp didn't win doesn't mean u can't be bias towards sv.

Not biased at all brother. I stated on the introduction topic that the month of December will be a trial run

[slushpuppy]

Never said it was madness, but trivial and ridiculous. You're assuming that clans go at it one against one without being crashed. More and more clans are now temp teaming with each other to take on others, and from time to time they actually win. Envy are a new MPC that will not be able to win for 2-3 months until they get experience and actually settle in to MPC, but they are pulling way higher than anybody in MPC. Science calls for precise calculations and conclusions, and if alternatives exist why settle for a somewhat accurate representation of whats happening in the wilderness. Some days clans barely get any action because the pulls have varied greatly and end up at clan wars, yet any clan putting their pull number up will be regarded as significant when in fact it wasn't.

 

KDR is definitely worthy, as it gives a sight to who actually won in comparison to all clans involved with the last clan standing in that field (returning is a great aspect of wars).

 

There is also another factor of sustaining a high pull; I am ready to bet that any clan that pulls high and still gets the brown sticky stuff beaten out of them wouldn't be able to sustain their pulls for long.

 

I example i can personally attest to was pre eoc where eop was in contention for top position vs MM. EOP actually outpulled MM significantly in 1 weekend, but unfortunately MM ran circles around them for that particular weekend and EOP pulls collapsed the following week.

 

Look at the rivalries last year; TLP vs FOE, CP vs EOP 2x, EOP vs FI 2x, SV vs EOP, in all instances, the clan with the higher average pull in the weekend came out ontop.

 

The truth is, no amount of rank propaganda can convince a member less an invite-who just wasted 2 hours of his precious weekend getting beaten- to cling on over and over.

 

If Envy outpulled all the MPCs and still lose even during crashed fights, then I think their leaders should get a special award for brainwashing.

[Lenin]

There is also another factor of sustaining a high pull; I am ready to bet that any clan that pulls high and still gets the brown sticky stuff beaten out of them wouldn't be able to sustain their pulls for long.

 

I example i can personally attest to was pre eoc where eop was in contention for top position vs MM. EOP actually outpulled MM significantly in 1 weekend, but unfortunately MM ran circles around them for that particular weekend and EOP pulls collapsed the following week.

 

Look at the rivalries last year; TLP vs FOE, CP vs EOP 2x, EOP vs FI 2x, SV vs EOP, in all instances, the clan with the higher average pull in the weekend came out ontop.

 

The truth is, no amount of rank propaganda can convince a member less an invite-who just wasted 2 hours of his precious weekend getting beaten- to cling on over and over.

 

If Envy outpulled all the MPCs and still lose even during crashed fights, then I think their leaders should get a special award for brainwashing.

 

There are some clans who are excused from this. Envy have declared MPC but their majority trips consist in LPC and even fighting xLPCs. When they beat these clans nearly 20 combats lower than themselves, others join them always keeping their pulls around 70 even if they lose to MPCs. Hassan (leader of Envy) can simply say we're new to MPC and current MPC clans are higher combat with defence to avoid losing any members. This tactic can keep them pulling high even though they're losing pretty hard in MPC right now. It will take them atleast 2-3 months to settle properly into MPC and do well. Hassan may/may not be aware of this, but this is really whats going on - so its not brainwashing.

 

You're also not considering loyal members, and clan friends and invites as importantly. There are strong forces to sway someone's choice to stay instead of leaving.

 

Like I said

 

Science calls for precise calculations and conclusions, and if alternatives exist why settle for a somewhat accurate representation of whats happening in the wilderness.

 

My point is that there are alternatives which would call for precise measures. EOP are still around with high pulls. Ruin have been slumping in pulls even though they haven't been exactly beaten terribly and are still doing good in minis and preps. Pulls is very subjective and the reasons vary a lot. Its not a trustable/accurate measure of a clan's performance < thats my point.

[slushpuppy]

 

Science calls for precise calculations and conclusions, and if alternatives exist why settle for a somewhat accurate representation of whats happening in the wilderness.

 

This is not science, rather it is just data collection and interpretation. Unfortunately there is no viable alternative at this time; the KDR can only materialize if jagex is willing to create the api link. Also bear in mind the KDR was also a somewhat flawed measurement as it resulted in clans actually milking scores by killing spies and stuff

 

 

There are some clans who are excused from this. Envy have declared MPC but their majority trips consist in LPC and even fighting xLPCs. When they beat these clans nearly 20 combats lower than themselves, others join them always keeping their pulls around 70 even if they lose to MPCs. Hassan (leader of Envy) can simply say we're new to MPC and current MPC clans are higher combat with defence to avoid losing any members. This tactic can keep them pulling high even though they're losing pretty hard in MPC right now. It will take them atleast 2-3 months to settle properly into MPC and do well. Hassan may/may not be aware of this, but this is really whats going on - so its not brainwashing.

 

You're also not considering loyal members, and clan friends and invites as importantly. There are strong forces to sway someone's choice to stay instead of leaving.

 

Like I said

 

My point is that there are alternatives which would call for precise measures. EOP are still around with high pulls. Ruin have been slumping in pulls even though they haven't been exactly beaten terribly and are still doing good in minis and preps. Pulls is very subjective and the reasons vary a lot. Its not a trustable/accurate measure of a clan's performance < thats my point.

 

Well if they want to abuse the clan tier system, then other MPCs clans must step up and start crashing EV's XLPC fights.

 

Yes, but core of any clan is significantly smaller. Clan friends generally don't give a fuck unless a big event is in the pipelines

 

EOP is certainly around, but "high" is a very subjective...are you saying they have high pulls relative to other hpc clans like foe/tlp who are gunning for #1? Ruin only just started having low pulls, if their ranks can't bring those figures up, brown sticky stuff will hit the fan. Like I said before, this whole opt thing has to be looked at from a macro perspective- all you are doing atm is criticizing the idea with the emphasis on micro time lengths

[Lenin]

This is not science, rather it is just data collection and interpretation. Unfortunately there is no viable alternative at this time; the KDR can only materialize if jagex is willing to create the api link. Also bear in mind the KDR was also a somewhat flawed measurement as it resulted in clans actually milking scores by killing spies and stuff

 

 

 

Well if they want to abuse the clan tier system, then other MPCs clans must step up and start crashing EV's XLPC fights.

 

Yes, but core of any clan is significantly smaller. Clan friends generally don't give a fuck unless a big event is in the pipelines

 

EOP is certainly around, but "high" is a very subjective...are you saying they have high pulls relative to other hpc clans like foe/tlp who are gunning for #1? Ruin only just started having low pulls, if their ranks can't bring those figures up, brown sticky stuff will hit the fan. Like I said before, this whole opt thing has to be looked at from a macro perspective- all you are doing atm is criticizing the idea with the emphasis on micro time lengths

 

You're being literal about science, its as if saying neurons are the only thing within the nervous system. If the focus is neurons, taking the statement literally is absurd. You are right about the data collection and interpretation for the most part, but its a vital part of scientific research which leads onto scientific theories.

 

Maybe we should open up a discussion to the wider community and possibly RuneScape on this matter, if KDR is not reliable to.

 

On the case of Envy, I'm pretty sure that a few clans will start hitting Envy a lot more now than before so thats maybe expected but do you understand my point?

 

I'm doing nothing but challanging the means to selecting a clan based on their 'performance'. Performance being the variable. It seems that you are trying to reject my challanges without accepting any proposition, I get the message. End//

[slushpuppy]

You're being literal about science, its as if saying neurons are the only thing within the nervous system. If the focus is neurons, taking the statement literally is absurd. You are right about the data collection and interpretation for the most part, but its a vital part of scientific research which leads onto scientific theories.

 

Maybe we should open up a discussion to the wider community and possibly RuneScape on this matter, if KDR is not reliable to.

 

On the case of Envy, I'm pretty sure that a few clans will start hitting Envy a lot more now than before so thats maybe expected but do you understand my point?

 

I'm doing nothing but challanging the means to selecting a clan based on their 'performance'. Performance being the variable. It seems that you are trying to reject my challanges without accepting any proposition, I get the message. End//

 

At this time, we are just simply adding up the data; the only thing remotely scientific about this is data collection- even that isn't subjected to any review as we don't go out to check the veracity of the clan's claim- the opts are taken at face value and will only be investigated if someone bitches about it- hence why your comparison isn't really on point. This exercise is more statistics and benchmarking than hard science

 

There is no point trying to open a discussion when the tools available to us is non-existent.

 

Yeah, but what you fail to understand is there is a natural order of things. No clan is insurmountable that's why i think your little rant about EV is exaggerated in many ways. They can and will be taken down fairly easily like you mentioned.

 

And I have merely countered your challenges. It's your job to respond since it is part of the scientific process- peer review and challenging/counter challenging assumptions & theories?

[Lenin]

At this time, we are just simply adding up the data; the only thing remotely scientific about this is data collection- even that isn't subjected to any review as we don't go out to check the veracity of the clan's claim- the opts are taken at face value and will only be investigated if someone bitches about it- hence why your comparison isn't really on point. This exercise is more statistics and benchmarking than hard science

 

There is no point trying to open a discussion when the tools available to us is non-existent.

 

Yeah, but what you fail to understand is there is a natural order of things. No clan is insurmountable that's why i think your little rant about EV is exaggerated in many ways. They can and will be taken down fairly easily like you mentioned.

 

And I have merely countered your challenges. It's your job to respond since it is part of the scientific process- peer review and challenging/counter challenging assumptions & theories?

 

This is another point, you seem to be rejecting everything I am proposing and not entirely on a rational basis. Even when I told you the tactic Envy are currently using as an example, you did not take that as a flaw in this 'clan performance' but only commented on other MPCs.

 

I did not claim the task is or should be scientific in its nature, I was merely advising a scientific approach as you are working mostly with quantitative data. Using a clan's pull to determine their performance without any knowledge over who actually won is inaccurate. Many variables are ignored. The main variable used; the pull, will vary and depend on multiple factors.

 

EVERY CLAN BITCHES ABOUT A FIGHT, and I never stated that this should be a primary factor in determining a clan's performance, hence why I said we could open this to a wider discussion - which again, you seem to be ignoring without logic. You're assuming, once again, that because you have not thought of any tools, there aren't any. That is absurd logic. The whole point of a wider discussion is to raise new 'tools'.

 

This 'little rant' with Envy was an example, and I did not present you biased opinion, in fact many agree with this (their tactic). This is one out of many examples, which again, even if I gave you woudn't take into consideration. Until the time they are taken down you are just going to give them an award because of their pull? This is beyond absurd. How about come up with a way to prevent this and future instances from occuring?

 

You haven't countered them, you have made excuses - there is very little reasoning whatsoever. "If one refuses to even sit down at the chess board and make a move, one cannot, of course, be checkmated."

[Pain]

This is another point, you seem to be rejecting everything I am proposing and not entirely on a rational basis. Even when I told you the tactic Envy are currently using as an example, you did not take that as a flaw in this 'clan performance' but only commented on other MPCs.

 

I did not claim the task is or should be scientific in its nature, I was merely advising a scientific approach as you are working mostly with quantitative data. Using a clan's pull to determine their performance without any knowledge over who actually won is inaccurate. Many variables are ignored. The main variable used; the pull, will vary and depend on multiple factors.

 

EVERY CLAN BITCHES ABOUT A FIGHT, and I never stated that this should be a primary factor in determining a clan's performance, hence why I said we could open this to a wider discussion - which again, you seem to be ignoring without logic. You're assuming, once again, that because you have not thought of any tools, there aren't any. That is absurd logic. The whole point of a wider discussion is to raise new 'tools'.

 

This 'little rant' with Envy was an example, and I did not present you biased opinion, in fact many agree with this (their tactic). This is one out of many examples, which again, even if I gave you woudn't take into consideration. Until the time they are taken down you are just going to give them an award because of their pull? This is beyond absurd. How about come up with a way to prevent this and future instances from occuring?

 

You haven't countered them, you have made excuses - there is very little reasoning whatsoever. "If one refuses to even sit down at the chess board and make a move, one cannot, of course, be checkmated."

 

When you mention us in your previous posts aswell, you seem to assume that we (ranks in Envy) sat down, talked and agreed to just mass our clan as much as possible so we could pull as many players as possible, simply to win this award, which by the way is NOT even the real thing yet. December was just a test.

 

What you call "tactic" is actually our passion and determination towards our clan. We spent our whole December training, recruiting and going out almost every day, hence our high and solid pulls with high peaks on weekends. Yes, we lost some battles, but we won the majority of them, which eventually led to us gaining even more new members without having to recruit them on our own. 

[Lenin]

When you mention us in your previous posts aswell, you seem to assume that we (ranks in Envy) sat down, talked and agreed to just mass our clan as much as possible so we could pull as many players as possible, simply to win this award, which by the way is NOT even the real thing yet. December was just a test.

 

What you call "tactic" is actually our passion and determination towards our clan. We spent our whole December training, recruiting and going out almost every day, hence our high and solid pulls with high peaks on weekends. Yes, we lost some battles, but we won the majority of them, which eventually led to us gaining even more new members without having to recruit them on our own. 

 

 

I never stated for once that you massed up just to win this award. Every LPC, and infact many MPCs mass.

 

The tactic stands as it is, you haven't really commented on that but characteristics of your clan. I admire your dedication, but Hassan does not have the same dedication as you and other ranks. Re-read the post on the tactic (describing what it is) - it may be unintentional but it exists and will do for a while.

[Pain]

Envy have declared MPC but their majority trips consist in LPC and even fighting xLPCs. When they beat these clans nearly 20 combats lower than themselves, others join them always keeping their pulls around 70 even if they lose to MPCs. Hassan (leader of Envy) can simply say we're new to MPC and current MPC clans are higher combat with defence to avoid losing any members. This tactic can keep them pulling high even though they're losing pretty hard in MPC right now. It will take them atleast 2-3 months to settle properly into MPC and do well. Hassan may/may not be aware of this, but this is really whats going on - so its not brainwashing.

 

If that´s the "tactic" you are talking about, then you are wrong. We never declared that we are an MPC. We said we will be moving up, that´s it. We literally went out with MPCs last Sunday, despite us still being an LPC and we had some good action. 

 

Right now, the majority of us are 60-70 combat and in December we had only like 2-5 70s, while most of us were 60-65. (xLPC cap)

Some of us have MPC accounts ready but we have yet to start using them. (I obviously use mine when I go out with Doom)

I can see how we have an advantage when fighting other LPCs. Even in preps most of us would be near the 65 cap and if you guys were to prep us again and we won, I know that Rage´s ranks would start complaining about our combat levels and call us an MPC, simply to use that as an invalid excuse.

 

 

 

Hassan (leader of Envy) can simply say we're new to MPC and current MPC clans are higher combat with defence to avoid losing any members. This tactic can keep them pulling high even though they're losing pretty hard in MPC right now. It will take them atleast 2-3 months to settle properly into MPC and do well

 

No, he can´t say that, we are not even an MPC yet. We are currently transitioning from LPC to MPC. If you were to include our MPC accs (those of us who have them), then we would be closer to being an MPC, but like I already said, we are not using them. I am still using my cb 56, you know that. Some of us used our MPC accounts in the Sunday war, yes. But remmeber, some of us are in Doom, so that´s more than a valid reason to do so. Even still, EVEN IF we were to take 5 mpc accounts out, we still wouldn´t be an MPC, just a weird tier clan.

 

And no we are not losing in MPC (that would mean we have been going out with MPCs for a while now)

 We went out with MPCs once, and that was Sunday, we had fun beating clans. And yes it will take some time to settle in, once we actually do move up.

[slushpuppy]

This is another point, you seem to be rejecting everything I am proposing and not entirely on a rational basis. Even when I told you the tactic Envy are currently using as an example, you did not take that as a flaw in this 'clan performance' but only commented on other MPCs.

 

I did not claim the task is or should be scientific in its nature, I was merely advising a scientific approach as you are working mostly with quantitative data. Using a clan's pull to determine their performance without any knowledge over who actually won is inaccurate. Many variables are ignored. The main variable used; the pull, will vary and depend on multiple factors.

 

EVERY CLAN BITCHES ABOUT A FIGHT, and I never stated that this should be a primary factor in determining a clan's performance, hence why I said we could open this to a wider discussion - which again, you seem to be ignoring without logic. You're assuming, once again, that because you have not thought of any tools, there aren't any. That is absurd logic. The whole point of a wider discussion is to raise new 'tools'.

 

This 'little rant' with Envy was an example, and I did not present you biased opinion, in fact many agree with this (their tactic). This is one out of many examples, which again, even if I gave you woudn't take into consideration. Until the time they are taken down you are just going to give them an award because of their pull? This is beyond absurd. How about come up with a way to prevent this and future instances from occuring?

 

You haven't countered them, you have made excuses - there is very little reasoning whatsoever. "If one refuses to even sit down at the chess board and make a move, one cannot, of course, be checkmated."

 

I am not sure if you read my replies entirely, but I have mentioned that if envy is getting beaten, their pulls will drop-regardless how big their core/loyal members are, they will leave as demonstrated by my HPC experience and examples I provided earlier that you conveniently ignored.

 

I have already explained why clan pulls matter in the macro aspect that you ignored once again.

 

And if you read the initial award topic properly, this particular award isn't the primary means of determining clan performance. It is a Wilderness clan of the month award for the highest pulling opt category afaik. Unfortunately you must realize that reality and that tools cannot be created without the help of jagex hq. Yes we can waste time discussing but as far as I know, jagex doesn't give 2 brown sticky stuffs about their pking community as they probably got lameass quests to cater to the skilling community. Until the such pre requisites are met(such as the inclusion of the kdr api), any result from such discussion is meaningless

 

Well, your depiction of envy's tactics in your previous replies isn't exactly coherent and I found it quite hard to understand your explanation of their methods. I suggest the next time EV posts a topic, you drop @@Persian Tom a pm. These awards aren't official, it is just a topic, no one is getting anything. We knew these sort of complaints will appear hence why we decided to use december as a dry run first.

 

Regardless, you refuse to refute my argument about clan pulls in the macro context, but decided to launch a personal attack... so i am not sure whether is this a chess game or just an scene created by a crying boy at the supermarket who didn't get his way..

[Lenin]

If that´s the "tactic" you are talking about, then you are wrong. We never declared that we are an MPC. We said we will be moving up, that´s it. We literally went out with MPCs last Sunday, despite us still being an LPC and we had some good action. 

 

Right now, the majority of us are 60-70 combat and in December we had only like 2-5 70s, while most of us were 60-65. (xLPC cap)

Some of us have MPC accounts ready but we have yet to start using them. (I obviously use mine when I go out with Doom)

I can see how we have an advantage when fighting other LPCs. Even in preps most of us would be near the 65 cap and if you guys were to prep us again and we won, I know that Rage´s ranks would start complaining about our combat levels and call us an MPC, simply to use that as an invalid excuse.

 

 

 

 

No, he can´t say that, we are not even an MPC yet. We are currently transitioning from LPC to MPC. If you were to include our MPC accs (those of us who have them), then we would be closer to being an MPC, but like I already said, we are not using them. I am still using my cb 56, you know that. Some of us used our MPC accounts in the Sunday war, yes. But remmeber, some of us are in Doom, so that´s more than a valid reason to do so. Even still, EVEN IF we were to take 5 mpc accounts out, we still wouldn´t be an MPC, just a weird tier clan.

 

And no we are not losing in MPC (that would mean we have been going out with MPCs for a while now)

 We went out with MPCs once, and that was Sunday, we had fun beating clans. And yes it will take some time to settle in, once we actually do move up.

 

Yes you did. Hassan made a public topic for fucks sake, why are you denying that? You even admitted (I have screenshot) that this decision shoudn't have been made public and kept within the clan. You had your first MPC trip, allied for several fights with an MPC, and now the majority of your memberlist is near or over 70 with some being 80. Can you really say you are a true LPC now? You are yet to watch CD or Rage's aftermath video's showing all your combats, do not lie.

 

Slaughter lost to you because of the combat range, not because you're quality is better. Majority of them were 50s dont talk of preps as if they matter right now with this combat difference. Its not an invalid excuse. Please provide everyone with a memberlist, and we'll judge from their.

The fact that you think you're not losing in MPC shows your point of view. I went with that OP trip, 4 fights between Envy and OP occured - you got slaughter in every one until Doom supported you - and AGAIN, you are yet to view their thread. Its odd how we show the integrity to view your thread, but you dont show the same thing for us.

 

 

I am not sure if you read my replies entirely, but I have mentioned that if envy is getting beaten, their pulls will drop-regardless how big their core/loyal members are, they will leave as demonstrated by my HPC experience and examples I provided earlier that you conveniently ignored.

 

I have already explained why clan pulls matter in the macro aspect that you ignored once again.

 

And if you read the initial award topic properly, this particular award isn't the primary means of determining clan performance. It is a Wilderness clan of the month award for the highest pulling opt category afaik. Unfortunately you must realize that reality and that tools cannot be created without the help of jagex hq. Yes we can waste time discussing but as far as I know, jagex doesn't give 2 brown sticky stuffs about their pking community as they probably got lameass quests to cater to the skilling community. Until the such pre requisites are met(such as the inclusion of the kdr api), any result from such discussion is meaningless

 

Well, your depiction of envy's tactics in your previous replies isn't exactly coherent and I found it quite hard to understand your explanation of their methods. I suggest the next time EV posts a topic, you drop @@Persian Tom a pm. These awards aren't official, it is just a topic, no one is getting anything. We knew these sort of complaints will appear hence why we decided to use december as a dry run first.

 

Regardless, you refuse to refute my argument about clan pulls in the macro context, but decided to launch a personal attack... so i am not sure whether is this a chess game or just an scene created by a crying boy at the supermarket who didn't get his way..

 

Thus you completely ignored my post about Envy's tactic.

 

I didn't ignore it, by its own, it is not a accurate measure of a clan's performance. You have yet to reply to this.

 

Yes, and my replies tried to expand upon that. Exactly why I said open a discussion and try to invite those from RuneScape/Jagex. You completely rejected the idea yet you are waiting for support from them, its odd? Its as far as you know, but it isn't 100% until you get an actual reply. If they did not care about their pking community why would the JCUP exist? Have you ever tried to contact RuneScape in a professional manner on this topic?

 

Let me simplify it;

1. Envy loses in MPC until they get stable; stats, grinding etc.
2. Envy continues in LPC, and gets a lot of wins because of their combats and stats over them.
3. KDR and pull balanced - far more recruits join through LPC over MPC. They have a combat range of 50-80, I can provide you multiple videos on this as evidence.

How do I refuse to refute your argument? I provided multiple paragraphs on why this award isn't an accurate measure of a clan's performance, and my purpose was to improve if I could upon it. You have rejected everything I have said to this point, and worse you haven't even acknowledged it. That was why I posted the quote about chess.

 

Can you show me one example of you acknowledging or responding with reason to my propositions.

Can you show me one example of a personal attack I have made against you.

[Pain]

Yes you did. Hassan made a public topic for fucks sake, why are you denying that? You even admitted (I have screenshot) that this decision shoudn't have been made public and kept within the clan. You had your first MPC trip, allied for several fights with an MPC, and now the majority of your memberlist is near or over 70 with some being 80. Can you really say you are a true LPC now? You are yet to watch CD or Rage's aftermath video's showing all your combats, do not lie.

 

No. Hassan did not make a public topic. Marcus made a public "hype" topic and nowhere in that topic does it state that we have gone MPC. It says "2016. Stay tuned". 

What I admitted was that I ALSO do not think we should be going MPC this soon (we haven´t moved up yet), but we are very close. No, the majority of our members are 65-70 combat. More and more however are now reaching 70 and going above. Ever since that topic about us going MPC somwhere this year, your ranks and members have been using that as an excuse for losses. 

[slushpuppy]

Thus you completely ignored my post about Envy's tactic.

 

I didn't ignore it, by its own, it is not a accurate measure of a clan's performance. You have yet to reply to this.

 

Yes, and my replies tried to expand upon that. Exactly why I said open a discussion and try to invite those from RuneScape/Jagex. You completely rejected the idea yet you are waiting for support from them, its odd? Its as far as you know, but it isn't 100% until you get an actual reply. If they did not care about their pking community why would the JCUP exist? Have you ever tried to contact RuneScape in a professional manner on this topic?

 

Let me simplify it;

1. Envy loses in MPC until they get stable; stats, grinding etc.
2. Envy continues in LPC, and gets a lot of wins because of their combats and stats over them.
3. KDR and pull balanced - far more recruits join through LPC over MPC. They have a combat range of 50-80, I can provide you multiple videos on this as evidence.

How do I refuse to refute your argument? I provided multiple paragraphs on why this award isn't an accurate measure of a clan's performance, and my purpose was to improve if I could upon it. You have rejected everything I have said to this point, and worse you haven't even acknowledged it. That was why I posted the quote about chess.

 

Can you show me one example of you acknowledging or responding with reason to my propositions.

Can you show me one example of a personal attack I have made against you.

 

Like I said, it was incoherent and hard to understand

 

I have replied to that, see

http://www.sharkbrew.com/community/index.php?/topic/14768-wilderness-clan-of-the-month-december/?p=362742- 2nd para

and examples here:

http://www.sharkbrew.com/community/index.php?/topic/14768-wilderness-clan-of-the-month-december/?p=363788- 2-4 para

 

Jagex has ignored all my email invitations for them to participate on sharkbrew. Moreover bigger community sites like draynor, zybez, tipit has tried with 0 lasting success. What makes your idea(s) that brilliant that jagex has to respond to you? Unlike you and your presumptions, I have tested the ground and the ground isn't favourable. Free feel to prove me wrong however and send them an email.

 

Like I said before, this dec awards is simply a dry run. I will note your complaint, but bring it up again to @@Persian Tom next time EV posts a topic.

 

Again see:

http://www.sharkbrew.com/community/index.php?/topic/14768-wilderness-clan-of-the-month-december/?p=362742- 2nd para

and examples here:

http://www.sharkbrew.com/community/index.php?/topic/14768-wilderness-clan-of-the-month-december/?p=363788- 2-4 para

 

 

Can you show me one example of you acknowledging or responding with reason to my propositions.

 

Forgive me, but I don't recall you bringing up any fresh subject in this argument thread. All you have provided me was that utterly ridiculous committee group brainstorming idea and EV crap.

 

 

http://www.sharkbrew.com/community/index.php?/topic/14768-wilderness-clan-of-the-month-december/?p=363896- This is where you ignore my points and go on to try and assassinate my character on the pretense that I ignored your rehashed argument points

[Furious]

Wow, text walls upon text walls.