Kim

Murd said it best. A walmart version of eop. Lot of these guys try really hard to impose themselves with that attitude but its not as natural. 

As a continuation of last week's topic that ran a poll on the main impact within the community. I decided to run another poll to narrow down what people may believe in truly. I used input from the last topic and some discord conversations held within SB Discord. I hope this topic can get similar numbers as it can be used a reference point for future community decisions. 
 
Thank you for those who provided input on the last topic, a lot of old faces came in to give in their input and some new faces who may not experienced the last movement provided input. 

Poll is anonymous. 

Here is to hoping that you're not a rank within rage. As a former rank of Supremacy, I can 100% tell you that Rage was bringing mains onto Supremacy as a "joke" "banter" for no reason at times when we were scouting out fights or just at graves. (This is when Rage were going against FOE.)  Supremacy leadership aka 3at/Pillow would most likely need Rage to sit down with them and have some sort of insurance. Other than that, they most likely won't trust you if only demands are made. Old core of Supremacy do not trust Rage and their leadership. So the insurance has to be made.  The way you worded that sentence wouldn't get anywhere with any elders+leadership.  Due to past disagreements and old beef. 
 
I don't see anything happening from FOE's side. I saw Apex's side being easier to communicate if Nox sees the benefit(if he is still the leader of Apex.) 

On discord, I discussed that the bit of team on crash. I don't see this happening if the communication between all clans is horrid or a pan of demands without any real insurance between both sides. 

3 YEAR ANNIVERSARY |  HYDRA P2P SUNDAY
April 25th 2021
We were able to organize and setup multiple fights this weekend out. With wars ranging from Chaos Temple to East Ruins, the action was heavy this Sunday with team-on-crash fights and clusters happening throughout non-stop. 

After the event we had a huge drop party for our clan to celebrate Hydra's 3rd Birthday. Ty4action all!
 
(Happy b'day to clan terror as well, as it was their anniversary as well on the same day!)
 

I'm pretty late to this party, but I feel like this discussion is something that probably should've occurred back in 2017/18 from the looks of things since my 6 year hiatus from the scene/game. I've read alot of replies to this topic that seem to have the correct observations, which is that simply put; the reason the mains are a problem in the pure community, is because the pure community is itself the problem.
 
If we go back (and I mean way back) to when the original Pure Community/Warfare became an established scene, the primary and obvious pro to being a pure versus a med was that you had more options for DPS at a lower combat level than any main had at the same +/- 5 combat levels. This meant that en masse, despite the defence advantage of being a med, pure accounts could damage the lower hp meds and kill them faster than the meds could kill the pures. This also translated somewhat equivocally from multi to singles pking, with the most successful examples of this ideology being displayed by Kids Ranqe, Mahatma, Elvemage, etc. This popularity enticed more players to play as pures, especially if you were a dedicated PKer, as that was seen as a true form of risk/reward combat, a prestigious way to play RS if you will. Many pure clans at the time were on average between combat levels 65-75, and it was considered impressive to have a pure over combat 82 whether by 70 attack or by additional prayer/defence. This was a culture not built around min/maxing for competitive advantage, but a culture built around massing as many damage dealers as possible with as little defence as possible.
 
The biggest shift from massing culture to individual quality culture came with the addition of Clan Wars and Bounty Hunter Craters, and the abrupt removal of Free Trade and the Wilderness. Suddenly, no longer were combat 65s fighting 70s and 75s maybe depending on the day, but now in the Craters you have combat 60s trapped in a crater where level 100s can hit them with no penalty or stat rework. Being the stubborn sort that pures are like to be, rather than just make new builds or change their pures into meds that could compete in the craters versus higher levelled meds, the single pking pures opted to just stay pure, but chase that before never embraced stat of Attack, and some also chose to add some extra Prayer and Defence alongside it. Since clans struggled to pull to Clan Wars, this was widely accepted so that as many people as possible could partake in Pure Warfare whilst the Wilderness was still for all intents and purposes dead.
 
Please note that back then, 20 defence was the absolute max def level allowed. It was astonishing to see a pure combat 90+ at this point and time. The clans who craved winning in this Clan Wars only era promoted and pushed for their members to get that higher combat level, because in CWA, all combat levels were hittable by the big boy 95s and 100s, just like the BH Craters. Alot of clans slumped during this time, as most members did not care to train or grind accounts to have maxed 99 stats, they just wanted to pk and war with their mates and have fun. Obviously, in this matched environment, the competitive edge in clans began to evolve and the culture of pure clanning shifted almost completely from massing to individual member quality (especially with the rise of Mini wars and matched preps). Then, the wilderness was brought back in the form of PvP worlds, and pures everywhere rejoiced. Thousands of players returned to the game, and hundreds returned back to pure clanning. New clans were born, all the pent up frustration from the Clan Wars era, the annoyances of bickering rank teams struggling to organize events with other rank teams was partially reduced, because in the Wilderness, there is no timer countdown, and there is no matched cap to run by. The bigger the clan, the better the clan, the more they win. So the pure community exploded, 2009 probably saw some of the biggest pulls in the game's history, in fact I doubt that the scene will ever see the top 4 clans pulling 90+ during winter holiday, the 5-9 clans all pulling 70+, and the lower 10-15 clans all pulling 40-50+. The main community was similarly enjoying huge pulls and due to the amount of competition, had weeks where every day there was a rune war happening in f2p, or a PKRI happening in P2p.
 
During this time however, there was no going back to the days of combat 65s-75s being good enough to compete. Sure, a clan like Epidemic could show up every now and again, overloaded with combat level 70s and low 80s to compete with the top pulling clans. That individual quality though, because Clan Wars was still the only "true" test of a clan's quality, meant that big mithlord accounts were the rave, and every clan wanted their members as high a combat level as possible. "The more you hit, the better use of your strength". "The longer you can pray, the better you can tank and last". These are sentiments the community still holds to this day, and the biggest changes from back then to now, is that back then:

- Main clans had plenty of other main clans to fight against. Despite pure clans being at the same combat range as Zerk/Tank clans (btw capped at cb 110-112 at the time), it was a show of weakness to try and compete with clans that boasted no defence or rune.
- Pure clans on the weekend were not interested in using mains in the wilderness, there were still plenty of level 70s around that couldn't be hit at FOG or Hill Giants by level 95s and 100s, let alone by level 105-112 meds/tanks.
- Defence did not play a roll in defending against Magic attacks. Your magic defence was purely based off of your magic level and the gear you wore. This meant that in a pinch scenario, pures could utilize their actual bridding talent to out DPS meds in P2p using Mage as a reliable source of DPS, alongside a random melee KO or great prayer/positioning.
 
There are other variables than just those 3 mentioned, but even if you compare those 3 points with how things are now and have been since probably 2012 when the Turmoil/Chaotic era was with the game.... I think it's pretty obvious that the pure community is honestly too far from even the proper ideology of "pure" to be capable of reverting truly into a more fun and enjoyable scene. Add to this the fact that main clans are as prone to avoid one another as pure clans, and they number very few when you remove the mercenary venezuelans that are contracted to fight alongside them... Everybody just wants to have every possible advantage for their clan to win before they fight. They want the stats, gear, opts, and intel superiority. With the game balanced the way it is, it's impossible for a pure past combat level 80 to really compete with any med around the 84-88 combat level range, regardless of build or gear. Statistically, a mage/range tank is the most powerful "combat" build in the game now. In both F2p and P2p with snare being allowed in the F2p server.
 
The pure community's only hope to revive/survive without continued reliance and interference by mains is that Jagex firstly alter the game's combat triangle in a manner to where Magic accuracy is again buffed to ignore Defence stat, and also that clan leaders/members get out of the endgame gear rat race that only really benefits CWA since as we've established already, the higher your combat, the less effective your pure. With combat level averages being well over 85 for most clans, it's highly unlikely that a scene reset back to 1-5 def would have any true impact, because people would still chase that combat 101 build with 99attack prayer str hp mage range etc, or have to get that 80 attack for the Elder Maul. Add to this the fact that pures have a annoying habit of multi clanning, whether that's CWA teams, Main clans, Singles teams and what not, the community just simply cannot escape mains, because they themselves are mains.
 
No pure can outmatch a main. Most pures would rather win, even if that means bringing mains, before they would remain pure and just take the L, regardless of it being in CWA or Wild.
No conglomerate of ranks will ever willingly be the first clan to fully return to the roots of pure warfare, setting a hard combat cap, refusing to fight in CWA with endgame gear (elders, toxics, rapiers, ballistas, etc) at the cost of their winrate (shit as everybody's is).
All that you, the community will achieve, is eventually ascending fully into the Med/Zerk/Tank bracket, and from there, the main bracket. Regardless of any scene reset, soon again shall everybody be back in this position, with these accounts and these weird ass proxy wars.
 
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk. None of you will make the change happen, and Jagex certainly don't give a fuck about you to help facilitate that change, so at this point just enjoy the community you're apart of, and when you finally get back to IRL, focus on the good times you had in your memories.

Hiding comments that have nothing to do with the topic

I haven't played seriously since ~2017 or 2018, but I would like to comment that I believe one of the simplest solutions is having the toxic rivalries come to an agreement/halt. (Like do you guys really care about a clans video game appearance/reputation as adults most likely over the ages of 25 at this point?) It comes down to the facts of having a game to play, or playing it miserably. 
 
When I was younger pures were designed to beat the shit out of mains and gang up on them. I really would have loved to see when FO got targeted by ROT that the entire community would have joint together and just fought ROT back. Yeah we would probably lose but, the insane amount of action that brings and the ability to tell one of the most dominant main clans to fuck off would have been awesome. 

ranks too scared to lose in clan wars cus it'll demoralize them and ppl will leave the clan

Sadly when the scene reset happened in 2017 it went very well as 1 def 52 prayer until the sweaty lads wanted to bring 25 def 107s until cwa, eventually making clans accept it again. Now cwa is pretty dead

Ngl the other irritant from back in 19/20 was the fact that certain pure clan ranks would be pming rot about 'anti rot' members in their rival's clans just to get them to camp them. That really started integrating main clans into the pure scene

Fo getting camped by rot and then helping them later is already really weird.
I think the reason it has gotten this far is because no clan before us has been able to deal with it for so long. It does affect everyone in some degree, however the real clans that are affected are the ones being camped, and the ones choosing to side with the main clan thats coming into our scene in the first place. At this point in time, there is so much bad blood that it'll probably take some clans closing before an actual alliance is possible.
Example: I'm okay with giving fo clean action, if they apologize and stop avoiding. However some of our members (rightfully so) wont off them simply for what they've done.
I'm okay with giving them clean action because thats why I want as well, clean action. Instead they're disrespectful, flaming, teaming with rot (which they now learned isn't smart), and most importantly: Avoiding clean CWA action.
 
In other words:
Apex & Zenith need to cut their ties with rot (who caused all of this)
Apex, Zenith, Supremacy and Fo need to stop avoiding clean CWA action.
The CWA scene is dying because 99/100 preps are Rage Vs FI, Rage Vs Terror or FI vs Terror.

Been a while since I wrote a book on this forum:
 
 
When we originally went 1-5 defence in the beginning of 2017, there were many factors behind not just why it happened but also that circumstances allowed & enforced it. Back then, everyone had two accounts because of LPC & after EOP went full main clan to deal with the 7 clan alliance we were fighting, it was easier for everyone to "reset" to escape this problem. What kept this in check was that I gave an ultimatum that anyone who'd break the new normal would be hit with overwhelming force of adamant and rune (Something that was put on full display against Sv). Nowdays, there's no interest in making new accounts and after seeing Revenant's FEL accounts, 1 defence will not save you from them.
 
I don't see the community dying, we have been through far worse (though, we were younger then). In the second half of 2014, the game was basically dead & there were only 3 clans left open: EOP(30), CP(50), FI(65). What saved us then, was IVP's decision months earlier to bring out a secondary bracket, which resulted in the clanning 'boom' at the end of 2014 with an additional 11 clans being added to the list. Granted Supremacy is the only one of those clans that is still open, the contribution from the influx of people was massive.
 
This will not happen now, instead the "lpc bracket" is an assortment of clans that were left relatively untouched the past 2 years and protected, in part, from larger clans by a high level of politicking on my end - along with threats. I can see F2P going away for a little while, in the same way as we did for P2P in 2014, where we did F2P Saturday & Sunday leaving P2P entirely abandoned to adapt to our needs. A lot of the "main problem" is just kids double logging, something very difficult to do in P2P.
 
 
 
As for the main clan situation:
 
The main clans themselves are no problem, most of us can out-main the main clans on our own. This is entirely down to pure clans trying to find allies in the main community and using main clans to try and make their clan look relevant again (fo/zenith). As a result, this problem ends with the closure of Zenith and depending on whether or not they aid EZ against OG ever again, that may very well come sooner than later.

so:
one defence allows:
- recruiting new players more viable - 1def 80cb accs actually get to prep and pk midweek (gl playing on a 80cb during midweeks btw)
-mains at the level are less of a difference than a maxed med/99def range tank at 107
- people can pk more using their 1 defs... keeping ppl active
 
25 def allows:
ppl have slayer helm/infinity...
nerd clanners think good as advantage over newfags giving them ego boost
 
one defence is far superior and should be stayed

Yeah, this was a salespoint back in the day for many of the newer clans. It would be good for the community.

I would normally hide this type of comments. But pure clan members need to see the toxicity. lol 

The most amusing part of this issue is that every clan has the same goal in mind, but rivalries and ego stop any progress. One clan stops the mains, their rival continues and stomps them etc. Mains are killing the community and making a lot of clans into a walmart version of eop
 
When rage were getting camped by rot, their rivals who 'didnt support mains' would laugh and also team on them with the main clans, leading to the evident relations with other main clans which led to this main clan proxy war with pure clans. I know rage only have mains etc now for retaliation to the main clans and those who help the main clans, since they openly drop the mains for nuetral fights.
 
You even have fo having a shared fc with rot and co on their own anni most recently. After that fiasco, they've seemingly dropped the mains cold turkey not because it's for the best, but because they were annihilated for their poor choice. Then you've got apex/zenith who have involved themselves with the main clans for almost a year. I'm not too sure on the other clans that have actual organized alliances, but I know most clans also have their own arsenal of mains because if these issues.
 
 
Clans need to stop their cringe alliances with the main world because all it ends up doing is brings the scenes together and turns the pure scene into the med scene. God forbid fo at the moment are setting the ideal example of dropping it cold (albeit as a response to their anniversary disaster). Clans need to follow that and keep it pure.
 
Text waaaaaaaaall

Sounding a lot like the eop of 2021 lol. The topic is about if the mains themselves are killing the community.

You're talking to people who think they win by spending 30 hours straight at a location in a childrens medieval knight video game. Just let kids be kids.

WILDERNESS TOPICS (PVP) SHOULD BE HIGHLIGHTED MORE FOR WHAT THEY ARE. EXAMPLE IF A PURE CLAN BRINGS ANY MAINS IT SHOULD BE LABELED IN HUGE WRITING THAT ITS A MAIN TOPIC
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Brian has released the clan world discord statistics for March. This month features a surprise clan at #1 messages (or lines) typed in their public discord channels. DF has taken the top spot this month by a slim margin over their closest competition.
 
Always a fun read at the start of the month. Full topic and stats is here - https://tempest-rs.net/topic/3773-clan-world-discord-statistics-march/

Retiring from GFX in a few months people. 
Worked with many clans in different scenes and made thousands of moneys. 
Ty sharkbrew and friends!
 

I don't normally comment on pure stuff. But, I recall Terror complaining about Supremacy's mains. 0:50 willing to log into mains for a boost of pull. Then people wonder why Supremacy brings a lot of mains at some points. 😳

A few years ago one of our Mediators "ubermensch" took some time off/away from runescape due to some personal irl matters. He has returned and found time for sharkbrew aswell as clanning in general. We welcome him back as a Mediator!

wb @ubermensch

Leaks#5212